Talk of J. M. Hammon, Zitting home, Salt Lake City, 18 September 1960
18 September 1960
Talk of J. M. Hammon, Zitting home, Salt Lake City, 18 September 1960
A talk by J. M. Hammon at a general meeting at the Zitting home in Salt Lake City. The archive file is labeled J. M. Hammon. The automatic transcript of the opening does not clearly name the speaker. The text is an automatic, unreviewed transcript of the recording, lightly paragraphed for reading. The recording itself is the source.
Members · Full recording · 47:31
President Hammond will be our next speaker. It's only delightful, brothers and sisters, to meet with you today. Last time we were together, we had quite a cool experience. I certainly desire the spirit of God with me today. When I'm able to say anything, it will certainly be by its dictates. The spirit of laziness has come over me, or what? I haven't much desire to...
Speak to the saints. Maybe because I've got something in the back of my head that I wish I didn't have to do. Maybe I better get going and go through there. I suppose that many of you have wondered whether we're having school or not. We are. We're out of primitive conditions. Talk about that old red schoolhouse that's got nothing on us. You know we're operating upon the contributions of the saints. We've got to have some more material. I didn't know where in the world to go but here.
If you ever need anything, you always go back to your friends. We need some typewriters. We need about 15. I've got, Brother Lou Barlow gave me one, and I've got two of my own. Now, before we think maybe that we've got something to lend or give, I can't very well use portables. They're just not adequate to teach typing students on. If any of you people could spare some typewriters.
either temporary or permanently, we certainly would be grateful. It costs about $20 to renovate one. You take them in and they just really won't touch them for much less unless it's just a matter of adjustments or replacing some parts. And most of our typewriters, as they sit around a while, they're dusty and they get lint in them and take them into the shops. And before you know it, you've done their soldier bill of goods and it costs $20 to get them fixed. But I'd be glad to stand down.
if you've got some typewriters that you think you could learn. We've got a tremendous job to do in this school, and we have. We've got students that have been well taught. They've had parents who've followed them up in their schoolwork, and they've gotten their lessons, and they're well enough on their way toward their education. Some have been robbed by their teachers, and others have been neglected by their parents, neglected by their school, so we have it.
what I consider in some respects a frightening responsibility. I don't need to talk to you, but I'll tell you this much. Let's not kid ourselves as parents that our children do not need an education. If they can get it by the dictates of the Spirit of God, or that what the Lord said is one five minutes spent gazing into eternity, to the prophet Joseph, is worth all the schooling in the world, let's not assume for any moment.
This is going to take place for our education because many of us may not get to gaze five minutes into eternity. Our feet brace and begin to take our education more seriously. We're living in a day and time when it's a technical age and it's going to get more technical. And while the Lord might simplify the lives of the saints, we're certainly going to move up into circumstances that will be to our advantage to have some scholastic attainment.
And I feel tremendously encouraged with our prospects and ability to deliver to the students. We've got good teachers. And I never gazed into the eyes of a more wholesome bunch of young people in my life. Talk about their rare experiences. There's a desire on their part to step forward in this work at a rapidity and a pace that will warm our hearts. For I know that we as we do, my age group, will only go so far.
You people will only pay so much of a price for the things that's being offered to you, and you won't pay any more. We've had bargains, Connors, for long in our lives, but we expect a lot of things. A bargain price. And it's just like I am. When I go down to the store and I can't drive a deal, I walk away with a demand of bargains. I'm afraid we're demanding bargains here. I was talking to Louis Barlow the other day, and he had been reading and talking to some.
Finally came across an article where some of these quiz people had sent out to some of our leading citizens questionnaires regarding their viewpoints and so forth. And a professor expressed his views that he was afraid that the youth of this nation had gotten to such a lackadaisical condition that they were not willing to work for what they got. And I'm afraid of the same thing.
But our contemporaries in the world and many of our own young people, because of their association with them and the good times that they've all seen, are not going to be willing to work and pay for what they have to get. It is a frightening thing. Many suppose that this nation is going to be thrown into a chaotic condition one of these days, which I don't entirely agree with. But if it should be, it would be a frightening experience.
While our people here, I'm sure, with a little counsel, would be willing to knuckle down, and they've proven from time to time, because of the almost continuous hardship that we've been under, through persecution in one thing or another, that they would settle down to their duties. But there's many of the young men that are living along with us, and young women, and they would never revert back to the hardships of the Depression, rise up in rebellion against the government, and so forth.
My feelings are that the United States government are aware of the same thing. The leaders of the nation, the controllers of the purse, are going to spend and spend and spend trying to hold this nation up. They'll spend themselves into bankruptcy. That's when I look for the great crash. I believe that they can do it any other way. People are going to demand it. The old folks are going to demand it. The voting public is going to demand it. The politicians are going to demand it. There will be souls that...
fabulous bills of goods at the polls from now on that people will sell their birthrights and miss a pot. People, considering the things that are happening in our midst and so forth, have great reasons to rejoice. But I don't know whether they are or not. I don't... Oh, I see a little rejoicing among the people, but not as much as I think there ought to be. When Alfred was thinking of the gratitude...
He felt, and so forth, it led me back to some of my experience. William Cook handed me some notes that his wife Myrtle took in Idaho when Brother Joseph was visiting me. He crushed my memories on a few occasions that I don't believe I'll say anymore that I'm getting more grateful every day for the gospel. Because I don't believe I've seen any days since then that I was as grateful. I guess I wept over this work for ten years. The call of ever being in the presence of the priesthood when they arose to...
speak to the saints and unfold the principles of the gospel that I wasn't led to such humility and gratitude that my head became a fountain of tears. I have never experienced my Idaho days a pain in my bosom for a day or two because of my sense of gratitude. I've had my heart swell until I thought it would break, and I've actually suffered pain through the swelling of my heart of gratitude. I've experienced it like that for a long time. But I've learned to live with it, I grant.
become a part of me. And I finally learned that shedding tears has nothing to do with the Spirit of God. Nothing whatsoever. But I'll tell you, coming out of a chaotic condition that I came out of in the church, a darkened condition that we were living in up in Yellowstone State, I'll tell you, it led me to bow my head in gratitude many, many times for the fountain of light that came to me through the Council of the Priesthood. I saw it among our Our safety friends, when they came from New York, they really had a sense of gratitude that they'd finally found something to take a rally around and to take it with joy. And their hearts were filled with gratitude. And I've seen some others. But I've seen others gather into this body of the saints that had the very antithesis of gratitude. They regretted it.
had regretted that they'd been taken out of such favorable circumstances and had to come here to these valleys of the mountains and begin this ordeal of being educated and treated in the priesthood work many of us are getting over our indifference and we are and what i consider one of the most favorable circumstances that that i've ever heard about i i concur with brother richard but i think that we've got more priesthood men gathered today in the spirit of unity that they've had since the days of Joseph. Cast many inspirations on the brethren. Brother Young had a great colonial people here. The colonization saw them on his hands. He had many, many faithful men around him. When we look at the diaries that's been handed down and the various conditions that existed throughout these settlements, there weren't very many men that were acquainted with each other and had been brought together in one book.
In one body, under the tutorship of the leaders of the church, that we're as prepared to be united as our people are today. I haven't heard anything today that I haven't recognized as being the truth. I still am apprehensive in spite of our prospects for unity and our circumstances where we can learn to be united. I'm still not impressed about the number that want to be. I'm still not convinced.
that this body of priesthood entirely is a priesthood body. I don't know how many men are here because their wives are urging them. I don't know how many men are here because they want to multiply families and so forth, and yet their aspirations aren't just as exactly as they ought to be. I wouldn't want to have to touch out and reach out my hand and touch anybody and make any accusations. But there is a necessity there, a clear-cut necessity.
That the men who follow this work be convicted in their hearts that they're following the priesthood of God and make their support and aims and life's ambitions dedicated in that direction. It's an absolute necessity to get through this work. There's no other way. This church is going to go down and down and down. And we're not going to be like someone just spoke about going and wanting to lay our head on our mother's shoulder and weep.
and mourn over our hardships because it will not be so. Many of you mothers are not going to see your children come to you and weep and mourn over their hardships and lay their heads on your shoulders because they're going to lay their head upon the shoulders of the priesthood. And that's why they're going to weep and mourn if they do weep and mourn. And so we're in for some drastic changes. For God is going to have a tried people and he's going to redeem his work. I'm thankful.
I'm thankful for the observations that come before my eyes to teach me and broaden my understanding and relative to the rights and privileges of the people of God. I've spoken some sharp words to some of my friends over the feelings that they had for their sons, over their daughters, over the things that they seem to possess. I've got some seeming possessions of my own.
I don't feel the both, but I've got a pretty keen sense in my being as to whom they belong. I'm very much aware from whence they came. All I have to do is stand beside the sickbed of some of my children for just a few minutes to be very sharply and quickly reminded the source of my blessings and how powerless and helpless I am without the help and spirit and benedictions of the Lord.
and the presidency I have over the people that are around me. I'm a little infant here. I can pass away, never wake from its sleep. Some of these sick spells that they get are not a struggle. They're from God. And for me to rise up to my majesty and assume that I own my sons and daughters, to me, is the height of folly. My sons have their rights and privileges in the kingdom of God the same as I do. They might come.
for a little domestic council and i might preside over them in some in some capacity but they're they're here upon this work to work out their probation and i may have sons that arise far above me in the priesthood i'd be thankful if i did and if i don't i've still got to go through the temple and have rights and ordinances pronounced over me yet to give me any presence any permanent presence over my boys And so I think that we ought to extend and expand our minds and our feelings in the preparation of these young people for the work that's ahead of us. Instead of being so possessive that we prepare our children for the work of the priesthood, every one of them, boys and girls alike. If we'll do that, we're not losing. And I'll tell you, if you do anything short of it, you're going to go through a squeeze with them. And some of you are going through it already. These children cannot be held.
They cannot be found under any other circumstances than the principles of righteousness. They might linger around because they might be homebodies, some of them, and you may not have any trouble. But that doesn't mean anything. The only way that it eventually, that these children and young people will be held close to us is through the audiences of the gospel of Jesus Christ. That's the only way.
We think that we can hold them and we think that we can do this. But the only way that the daughters of this group can be held in this work is to be sealed to the men in this group. That's the only way. It would be a wise thing for you women to ponder upon this subject and consider it and try to understand it. Instead of preparing your daughters in the ways of the world, they ought to be prepared in the ways of the priesthood. That's why they ought to be prepared.
We've heard so much here, and I know that it has its place. I'm not trying to belittle it, and yet we've certainly got to reckon with it. We realize that we have to get along with these neighbors on the left and these neighbors on the right, and our house is in the middle, and we have to try to live in peace. But I don't think living with them by compromise is the way through. If I have to compromise my daughters and compromise my sons, and say well i guess you'll have to do this so that the neighbors won't find us out and i guess you'll have to do the others so that we won't be found out and until we won't be rated and so that we can live in this house we bought it now we don't want to lose it and a lot of other excuses i fear and crumble i don't know just exactly what beats in your bosom but i can't conceive it's any different than mine and i tell you i know how i i know how i fear
Fear takes possession of me when I think of my daughters or my sons wandering away from this work. You might say, well, what are your other fears? Well, I certainly am a little bit afraid like all the rest. When I hear the old rumblings up the head of State Street and the rumblings around through the neighborhood, it puts a little panic in my bosom and I wonder what I'm in for again. But I'll tell you, it's nothing compared to the panic that goes through me.
when I think that maybe the things that I've labored for and stricken for, that my heart and affections are tied to most, are going to wander away from this work. If I was a little dubious about its truthfulness, that may be a little different, but I'm not. I'm not dubious about the truthfulness of the work in which I'm engaged. Maybe the years haven't filled me with a sense of gratitude that I had at one time, and maybe I've become more capable of expressing gratitude, and it doesn't...
Well, my body's the heart, but one thing I have certainly gained through the years is a testimony of this work. I believe that when I first heard it, thank God, I tell you, it warms me. It warms me. If your lives warm you, some things in my life warm me. And I'm thankful in my heart that I did not ever resist my breath.
When I first shook hands with Joseph Musser and set him down in my house in his wet clothes, which I wasn't aware of, we stayed there nearly all night with him. And we arose and we embraced each other. I thank God that I never remember the day of going through a period of resistance to this priesthood. I thank God that I never had to wander among the fringes of this work to find out whether it was true or not, like many of my...
contemporaries have done well better ham and i'm going to go up to such and such as well or i'm going to go up to set them first and talk to so-and-so they've heard some things about this work and so on and i guess they're still looking right there i haven't seen them and i don't care what they ever come back i don't care i don't care that's one thing i really don't care whoever look at gaze upon the face of the people that have gone around and tried to find all the dastardly things they could about Lauren Willey and John Barlow and Joseph Musker. I happened to run into some of Joseph's neighbors one day, and they started in on me, and I turned, and I couldn't get out of that filthy presence. A man that goes through this church and performed the work that he had to do and rear a family like he had to do, had to do a lot of things.
And I suppose that a lot of things appeared to people like they weren't. You understand my language. It might appear to some that he was a dusting soul, but by the dictates of the Spirit of God to me, he was nothing but a man of God. And I can't conceive of him ever being anything else. That day he was born, until we laid him in his grave. Now those are the feelings. But I, but I'm exercised. I'm exercised, my dear brethren and sisters.
About our feelings and our longing for peace. Remind me a story of a man who lived with his mother with peace at any price. Lived with his mother-in-law with peace at any price. And I will not live with this church in peace at any price. I will not. I did everything that a human being could possibly do. Settled before a high council for six solid hours. Trying to make peace with it. But not at any price.
And I don't care to make peace with anybody. Not with this church, with this state, nor with this nation. Nor with my neighbors. I would a whole lot rather go through the hardships all over again to redemptive rather than sacrifice the lives of these people. We wonder why the saints come out here. They might have come out here for some of their own personal welfare. It was one of the foremost ideas that they had in their minds to take it rear of their families.
according to the dictates of the Spirit of God, according to the principles of the Holy God. That's why these valleys have been colonized and founded and conquered. That's one of the reasons. That's one of the reasons why we stay down there in the South and let that sand blow on our faces and over and under and through it. We need it. It's the express purpose that we'll be able to found a place where we can take some of our people that need a little center and release from the pressure of this world.
and bringing them up according to the principles of the gospel. And I thank God that he's beginning to recognize a few of our labors. I'm thankful for Richard. You've often heard me say how I've seen him sacrifice and labor and toil for this work. It does my heart good to see some of the things that's happening, happen in his lifetime, that he might reach some reward for his labor. Worked and toiled when no one else was able to work and toil. He kept right on going, right on going.
With a hope in his heart that someone would step up beside him and work for you. It's paid off. Paid off. Well, brethren and sisters, I don't feel to prolong my remarks, but I'd like to see you encouraged. I'd like to see something spring up in your bosom that would give us the assurance that you'd pay the price. If you really wanted to. I'd like to see beaming in the eyes of the brethren the desire for a plural wife on the basis that they could...
They could build up the kingdom of God with her. They would raise the posterity and keep the posterity according to the principles of new and everlasting. They'd take these wives on a basis that they were going to love and cherish. I guess it was Guy, when he was down south last year, after speaking about the people that went north in the 1880s and 1886 up into Idaho and how they were the ones, they undoubtedly were, that were anxious to get away from me.
prosecutions of the day here in Utah. Many of them abandoned their wives and left those widows to rear their own children. I never knew until my sister Pauline tied up with us for a while here and revealed some of the things she knew, but I had two aunts who were married under those circumstances and their husbands deserted them and they reared big families all by themselves and were never married again.
If you ever want to run into them, are there some of the Manning family that live up near Bailey and Rupert, Idaho? I forget that little town up there. Arco. Where she took her son. Some of the Prescott's. Don't. Don't you ever do that. Don't you ever abandon your family for any kind of pressure. I think there's a way through this. And that's the way to do right. If we keep our families and leave our priesthood. And I favor what God we've lost anyway.
But I know that these principles can be lived. I know that these confidences can be established. And I think that probably the most important thing in the whole process is just the will to do it, to cultivate that desire and that attitude. How many of you men are working at things today that you actually feel in your heart that your talents are not adapted to, that your heart's not in? Well, I presume half.
You feel like you're a stranger at your work. Some man's compelled to work for the railroad in an atmosphere that's contrary to his nature. Some man's out selling. Some other man's doing this. All contrary to nature and feelings of his heart. And yet you do it. And why? Because of necessity. And you force your talents and your character to adapt themselves to that regime.
because you feel like you must. But would you take and turn the tables and force your character and your heart and your talent and your mind to adapt themselves to the principles of everlasting life? Will you supplicate God on your knees and asking for his spirit to fill your heart with a love for the work of God? I don't know whether that is possible or not. Well, it is possible. God Almighty says that these Gentiles can be adapted into the house of Abraham.
by the being immersed in water and having the Holy Ghost conferred upon them. Now, what do you expect them to do? Why, they've got to come in by adoption. And their characters have got to be changed by the dictates of the Spirit of God upon them. And you expect them to do it. Now, is there any difference between them doing it and us doing it? Those of us who have an aptitude and a love for this work natively in our hearts. Now, let's not take these things lightly.
Let's not let these young people take these things lightly. The young men and young women. This is absolutely the only source of happiness. Absolutely the only source of true happiness. You might enjoy your life for a day in the midst of the world and while your youth is upon you. And you may even enjoy it so long as you sojourn upon this earth.
that you will not enjoy your life in eternity unless you have the blessings of the holy priesthood to sustain you and uphold you and carry you forth. Or you'll lose your companions, you'll lose your blessings, and the day will come when you'll cease to exist. You think, oh, I want this. I want romance. There's no true romance in the midst of society except that romance is sustained by the priesthood of God. None.
for they all lead to the grave. There's no true order of friendship except that order of friendship that's sustained through the new and everlasting covenant that Joseph Smith gave his life for. There's no principles on the face of this earth that will hold men and women together not only through time but eternity with the blessings of the holy priesthood. And there's no principles on the face of this earth that will teach you how to live with each other.
except the revelations that come to the servants of God. There are none. There's nothing on the face of this earth that will stop this wave of immorality that's going through this nation and through this people except that strength that's born of the servants of God through the priesthood that they hold. Now, these things are true, brothers and sisters, and even though they may appear not to be true because of the circumstances in which we live, But I testify to you they are true, and if you'll seek them, you'll find, and you'll get the strength that you need to get. If the Lord is putting us in good circumstances, let's try to yield to it. Let's see the day when this people now can be governed, governed with a letter by the priests of God. Some men had inquired of me the other day of what we ought to do about certain things. We had certain Christians with the law, sadly.
I said, there is no friction between us and the law, except the laws of God, wherein we're required to sustain the plurality of the marriage relationship and possibly united order. That is the only friction we have with the law. The rest of the laws, for the most part, are a bond of necessity, especially this civil law that's around us to govern our traffic and our taxes and us and our soul.
This is our land, and we ought to yield to it. If we want to quit making ourselves oddities, let's quit fighting the things we ought not to fight. Let's start sustaining the things we ought to sustain. Let's sustain the law of the land, just as the Doctrine and Covenants support us to do. That law which is constitutional, for they have a right to govern it. They shield it and protect it.
And they'll do just about as much for clothing and for feeding us as any people in the world if we need it. And if we'll get these spirits and these feedings in our hearts, then the Lord will be able to bless us. But if we're filled with rebellion, we're not going to enjoy the Spirit of God. I made a remark the other day, and I think that I'd like to make it again to you people, and then I'll close my remark. But I just want to draw to your attention some of the things that goes along in the character of people.
I presume that there are men and women in this congregation whose families are participating in the church. And I hope the Spirit of God will guide me in such a way that I can make my points clear and leave sound counsel for you. But I met an old acquaintance of mine the other day on the street. We hadn't met for a long time, and he stopped and took hands with me, and we started to visit back and forth, and he wanted to know.
how things were with the people, one thing and another, and we raised it on. I didn't know how Brother Johnson was and Brother Musser was, and that he had tried to see them, but he hadn't been able to contact them, and so on. And after we got our preliminaries over with, he began to tell me how that one of his close friends had prophesied and began to get revelations to the sect that David O. McKay was going to be stricken in this October conference. That's an old, old story. The devil has prompted dozens of people to tell such stories, and it seems like they're just gullible enough to keep on falling for it. And then he went on to intimate how he thought that this was certainly the time for the church to be set an order, and that he secretly hoped that something like this might happen. Well, I...
Thought I was aced with him. I tried to reassure him that I didn't think such a thing was going to take place. But in my observation, considering the times of the times and the way that people were, David O. McKay was doing a first-rate job, presiding over the people that needed to be presided over and giving them all that they were able to appreciate and enjoy. And we went on, and after I got away from him, I began to think of the condition of that man. Hanging inside him, taking his children and his wife, to church, teaching in the high priest quorum, taking his grandchildren, he enumerated how many grandchildren he had, which was quite a number, taking them to church, encouraging them to cling tight to this mother who was just disgusted of all the authority that she ever did have, and trying to build that institution up in their lives, and he was secretly hoping that their president would fall dead.
As I walked back to my car in the parking lot, I thought, man, how'd you like to live? What kind of a character would that make of you? If you were saying you're tithing us one hand and praying to God for the other, the president dropped dead. I wonder where our religion is, brethren. You brethren are using the church for your families. Teach them the truth. Teach them the truth. Let them sustain the authority. With intelligence, try to show them.
These things the way they actually are. This church is still in the hands of God. And that's very unlikely the way that he's going to set this work in order. The first thing that he's got to do to set this church in order is get a people that can be set in order. I would like to know how you could take that church which is inanimate as one of those automobiles. You've got to go in there and turn on that key and put a man in there to operate it before it becomes of any use.
And I don't know what difference a church is. It's just an organization. The brethren got together, according to the history, six of them, and formed a corporation known as the Church of Jesus Christ in the state of New York with six members of certain rights and privileges before the law. It was just as devoid of life and animation as it can be until Joseph Smith set his hand to animate it. Now please tell me what difference this church is.
And so when we talk about setting that church in order, well, you could set that automobile in order. You could give it a coat of paint. You could put new tires on it. And you could put a new battery and fix the spark plugs and all the things pertaining to the mechanism of that car and make it in perfect order. But until the brethren come to animate it, it's about as useless as it can be. And so it is with that church. And God's not going to go set an organization in order until he's got people to man it and take care of it.
That church organization was created for the people. The people were not created for it. And so the labor of this dispensation is to prepare people to meet God and to get them in such a condition that they can be taught correct principles and that they can respond and render some performances that will stimulate confidence in the bosom of our Heavenly Father. And if the church can't be used for that, then you just as well keep your children home.
Just as well keep them home as to send them there and have them hate the president, pay their tithing, wish they could keep it, and carry on in all the affairs of the world. They're building up nothing but an element of hypocrisy. And it will turn around and rend you one of these days in the form of your own children. You can use that truth. You can use it. It will educate the children that are going there and teach them the truth. But let's not indulge in such...
He's going to say antiquated hypothesis, and it is getting antiquated, to anticipate that God is going to strike the brethren dead. President Hubert J. Grant died up there in the LDS hospital. He never did die in that post. He did it. He lost it. It took him a long time to die. David O. McKay is not going to fall before 10,000 people and give them a shock of their lives and break up them.
the institutions of the church until they're the people prepared to man it and take care of it. For God said it would never be thrown down and the gates of hell should not prevail against it. Now let's be rightful in our religion and let's try to cherish the things of everlasting life. Let's try to cherish the brethren. I realize that we have our difficulties with our personalities and that we're stricken pretty hard sometimes because of these personality problems.
finally come to the place in my life where there isn't any issue with the present. But I've come to recognize the office that presides over me. I recognize it in Brother Zitty. I recognize it in Brother Jody. Brother Jody's illness, he took us through some tight places. And yet I don't know when I ever, ever had a feeling that I would to God that he'd be striking stricken dead. What high pox. I wonder where men...
I pray the Spirit of God to continue with us in this meeting, that we'll be actuated by good, sound principles, that we'll listen to the counsel that we'll hear, that we'll seek the Spirit of God, and try our level best to live so that the Lord can... Place it upon us. And I do it in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen.
Sources
- From the Historical Short Creek archive, 1960 documents. Duration 47:31. Automatic transcript (unreviewed). Speaker identification is from the archive file name, checked against the opening of the recording where it names or introduces the speaker.
This transcript is free to read. The full recording is for members. No public media URL is listed here.