Talk of J. M. Hammon, Salt Lake City, 8 May 1960
8 May 1960
Talk of J. M. Hammon, Salt Lake City, 8 May 1960
A talk by J. M. Hammon at a general meeting at the Fischer home in Salt Lake City. The archive file is labeled J. M. Hammon. The automatic transcript of the opening does not clearly name the speaker. The text is an automatic, unreviewed transcript of the recording, lightly paragraphed for reading. The recording itself is the source.
Members · Full recording · 52:18
I believe the gospel is true. I believe that peace was in our midst. I believe that the meeting in 1886 was actually held, and that President John Carter set those brothers apart. I don't believe it happened, but I believe it was necessary. And that is to preserve the work of the Lord in the earth, to bless and prosper the foundation, and to fulfill the covenant that God Almighty made. And that's in the spirit world, that if we came into the earth, that we would have the gospel of salvation administered to us.
I think the Lord has done a masterful job trying to preserve the truth in the lives of the rebellious and stiff-necked people. He was a homilist, a sinner, and recognized his almighty hand. And all the rules, the dictates, the commands, the combinations of men, the forties, purposes, and the adversary combined. If it hadn't been by an almighty hand, it would never have been accomplished. Back as early as...
1870 and 1880 and 1890, some of the most powerful men that has ever lived in these valleys of the mountains, and this is the case. They reared against this work and determined it would be fantastic, and that this would become one of the first states of the Union, and that it would become popular with the world. It's a miracle, absolutely a miracle. God could find men with sufficient integrity to withstand it. He did.
They stood in the gap these many years and got down to this deep, deep, to come to our salvation. I've had the fifth times in my life in the hearing voice of those who have accused our predecessors, but I can't find it in my heart to accuse, after knowing that later the faith was found. I told this congregation that George W. Mephi was the first man of God that I ever laid my eyes upon.
I never lived long enough to pay the debt of gratitude that I owe him for his integrity. In this felony, the on-clops of the church would be the size of Latter-day Saints, his friends and relatives, and I suppose that the truth is known as killing. Keeping the truth alive and preserving it for those who are interested. The famous Brother Bono, who labored in behalf of those whom he touched in this life. Their labor was not an easy one, their wonder was still the truth.
The judge was standing in my home, tears streaming down his face, and he turned to me and said, Brother Hammond, do I want to tell you before I start to talk to these people? He's here to tell you what I know. He says, it's far. He'll follow you all the days of your life. He said, do what I tell you. He said, no place that I travel is where I go. I've done anything for the people to find. His label wasn't 50 light, except for the knowledge we have of these forces pleasing in the eyes of God. Now it's the hour.
people going around this council and fill the file and i often think of the remarks because what can we do to tell you the truth think of these things now desires that people are to be said and there are guys and build up and maybe feel great and grand that they are somebody and so forth but i've never found it in my heart to be able to do it tradition to the people. I've never been one to conform to each tradition. I have my own tradition. I've never been inclined to conform to other people's traditions. I'm anti-social. I feel good about my association. I feel good about these people. I hope that we can cultivate a greater desire for truth. We've got a good deal yet to accomplish and perform before we can obtain the blessings that we need.
And I can't help but feel, honestly and truly, I can't help but feel that this congregation has been gathered together largely by the instrumentality of the Spirit of God. I believe in you. I think you give everybody hell all the time. I'm trying to get them to lay aside the stupid tradition of their past and be in harmony with their married life.
developed a very philosophical atmosphere with the belly aches that he had to put up with. There I'm sure that he weeps with you, but he's like big and young. The person that he can't carry, he kicks off with his heels and goes on with it. I wish that we all, I wish I could separate myself from you one hit. I wish that in our hearts we could develop a daily devotion, a daily spirit of desire to attain to godliness.
I look at what taste of spirit that the Lord has given to us in times past as an inducement to strive and labor for the things that are in store for us. There's hardly a man here that hasn't someday or sometime in his life whispered to me that he loves the atmosphere and that he has to work. That he wished that the brethren could organize and that there could be something where that they could work in the society of their own brethren and the group.
It proves to me that we certainly are not of this world. I love him, too. That is, I can stand some of the social functions, but to get back and get personal with him and go backstage with him, I haven't any desire. It's sickening to me. It makes me just as sick to do that as it does Daisy Steed to ride in the car. Excuse me, Daisy, for revealing your feelings, if you're here. Where is it all going to lead us?
This people, yet, is in a low, miserable state. There's hardly a woman or a family. We won't separate the unions. There's hardly a family. Some woman isn't doing the opposite of what the other guys are doing. They go, they're both right, they're something. They're lying. They establish a breach in their lives. A gentleman or a husband is going to take Herculean efforts to overcome.
And it takes Herculean effort. You can say what you want to. I know some of the faults and failings and bad habits that befall Brother Hammond. And it's going to take a Herculean effort to overcome them. And that only by the grace of God. And you taking breaks of confidence between a man and a woman. And have a woman conduct herself in such a manner that a man whose confidence is broken is going to take a Herculean effort to restore it.
There's nothing short of that. It's going to do it. And yet these people have been warned and warned and warned. This isn't the first time that the priesthood has been warned that they should go in their family. Then they're more generous and God-like manner and start doing their big tutorial. Of course, I remember what got us started. We used to be told that the women should live with all their husbands. And I don't know what else they could be told. Preach to them. That's the only way they could stay together. It's like...
Guys re-isolated to get and develop the law of their own. And see the law of the gospel. And they've been tired of many things a lot. And they're getting squared away and things are working out. But here they are working out here. A brand new people. Sons and daughters of some of the old Star Wars. Are the ones that are carrying on. They find some of the women. And taking miserable care. Miserable care. Of their husbands.
And their wants, and their needs, and their dignities, and their health. And of course, I got to what's said about it, but I thought I'd find out what the Lord said about it. And I noticed that he admonished the family to conduct themselves in such a manner that he implies that they don't, that they try to be patient in one second. And I thought that that was good enough for me. If he can be patient, I'll try to be. One man was talking to me about the safety.
and the poor policies and conduct to some of the people and so forth and i had to admire admit out of all honesty that some of our awkward faults and bad habits and so forth aren't happy dirty and filthy are some of the things that can touch under a clean shirt we need a renovation and start to send it but i i believe that it's been possible I have confidence in the dead end for the most part. I feel like if we ought to try to do some of the things we can do, however, and have our will as much as possible swallowed up in the will of the dead end. That's the only thing that on the face of this earth that is going to save us. And I talk from my horse and try to persuade the sisters to uphold their husbands in the peace.
And try to lend them every support and encouragement to get to be one with the devil. Because that's the only way that you'll finally have the law taught to you. The last analysis of this law, if I understand it correctly, is going to be taught to the women through their husbands. Through their ability to unite with their husbands and to be taken into sacred and holy places. This is a party change. If you women quit fighting your husbands.
If I fight with Brother Johnson, he's even friendly like me. He carries the disruption and the unity and peace that ought to exist between us as men of God. And the Lord can't own us, but he wants to. And now what can we do as a man? Even though he has a wife that he thinks the world of and would like to be something for. If he's diligent and quarrelsome and rebellious in his nature, there comes a time when we can't take it the way we'd like to. And so I thank you.
Brother Jeff indicated to you a little while ago that this is a matter of submission. Of course, it's our vanity and our pride and our egos that keep us from submitting. The devil has caught some in his awful chain, and the only deliverance that will ever come will be by the grace of God. I feel that. Many of the saints are hiding behind these weaknesses, the bedding, the teaching.
I suppose that I shouldn't ever say anything except that it's a road to practice, which I think you never saw. If you hold my tongue to the six virtues of my own life, I wouldn't have very much to say. You ought to, to your own faith, to generous enough with yourself, to have the Spirit of God enough in you to weigh and consider what you're told and practice it here regardless of where it comes from. And that ought to be the first quality, the first quality of it.
If we have confidence that the peace that is in our midst is tried to obey it, then it's possible for us to do it. And it's possible to do it all, because I make some alliance with each humanity. You, dear women, put forth in us to attain this unity and this one thing. You lend strength and support to your husband that will just get him down the road just as fast as he can go. There is hardly a weakness, as I see this real picture.
It exists in the bosom of the man that the woman can't help but overcome. If she wants to, if she's willing to, then they'll fight about it. If she'll take it to the Lord, and later, if a guy talks about how the woman had been oppressed, then I got it. I've helped. If there hasn't been hardly a thing that couldn't have been overcome through the submission and proper attitude of the woman, that's a quarrel that I was invited to settle when I was a really young man.
The boy came running to our house and said, Hey, Herman, my mother wants you. Do you want to come right now? And I jumped over my car and took the boy with me, went back to our house, and I found a woman calling a man every name that I'd ever imagined that I'd call a horse. Some of them were mules at that. They were awesome. She was sobbing and crying and just going for his business.
Well, I think if you're going to talk a man's language, you're going to have to take a man's tongue. So I think it's difficult. You talk the language of a man, and then you expect to be treated like a lady. That's a pretty hard task to get a man to do. Paul says that the woman will sanctify the man, and the man will sanctify the woman in the Lord.
And I believe I've done it. I believe a good, virtuous woman that's bent on doing right can help temper a man to do the unholy attributes that might exist in this country. And I don't see how it would hurt a man to do the same to a woman. A good, fine, virtuous man can do a lot for his business to be done as a woman. And his own virtue must persuade her to be virtuous too. And a virtuous woman will.
to pray to men, to be vicious to, to still learn how to labor. But if not, the priority is a woman to dictate to a man. And that's the wrong approach entirely to take, where the guy is already intimate, and to take an inquiring, and to phrase his attitude, and these manners, and not start to talk in men's language, and hoping to get our work done, because it can't be done. God can't use.
You destroy the very thing you're trying to accomplish when you try to dictate a man. Because the minute that he subjects himself to you, and you gain the ascendancy over him, you've lost the virtue that you're trying to accomplish. Because the man's gone, and you've just got a thing in your head. So you women have got to help build a man. And the only way that you can build something to do is to get him to direct you in the way that you ought to be directed. I think that that power lies within the woman. She wants to benefit.
Those things, if they were practiced in this society, would have a tremendous benefit. I often think, because of some studies that are being made, of the life of a sage. I've often wondered in my years, like a lot of other things I've wondered about, how he was able to perform such a marvelous work. And that, too, in these very youthful and tender years. Understanding has come to my life that he was able to do it because of the things that he knew. First place.
Taught by his mother, as Brother Jeff has indicated, taught by his mother from the day he was born until she exercised her last influence over him, that he was a son of God. Taught to him in such confidence that he believed he was able to obtain the presence of his father in his boyhood. In obtaining such confidence and the source of such information, he pushed it.
The father was glad to be served and was looking forward to the day in blessing and prosperity. Finally, God himself came and taught him the things that he should do. And the reason that he was able to live a perfect life, he had perfect understanding. And a man can't do it any other way. Often thinking, the man thought, it's kind of rude and uncouth, but it's still sick. You can't make a sick person out of a five-year-old. You take an uncouth and ill-literate man or a woman and you can't...
Bring them up into the graces of the kingdom of God. It only comes by education and culture and refinement. And the influence of the Spirit of God upon the individual. And so these things are important in our lives. And we've got to be taught and taught and taught. And we've got to continue to gather ourselves together and be edified month after month and week after week. Speak for the Spirit of God and die with all our might.
increase our understanding. When we begin to have increased understanding, we'll have increased respect for the sacred things of God. I made a remark many years ago to these people, and I think that I'll make it again, so that we'll have some good position to hold our tongues, and therefore authorize to do otherwise. Not as if criticizing the church of God. It's lowly a condition that it's got into in such a way.
Deceptive conditions exist among its people. It's pretty hard not to let loose a land bath once in a while. It kind of took them in their place, but we haven't had much influence on them up to date. It has been my observation that the people who are justifiably excommunicated from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have never succeeded in this work. And further than that, those who drifted away I've seized upon blessings unlawfully from the church, and one thing and another have never come to this work and succeeded. And I don't know of a man who's taken it upon himself either to write or to habitually criticize the church's progress in the work of the priesthood. And I don't know of a woman that has taken the course and has become a fixed habit in her life to criticize her husband who has finally succeeded.
has eventually drifted off. And I don't know of a man that's criticized the priesthood. And so this criticism that we so freely offer is a very dangerous and explosive thing in our hands. And it will backfire on our lives unless we use it with great care and trust. So it's not given to the same people found in those critical positions. None of those people have been our own judges except these.
I don't know of anything that will rob a man or a woman of the Spirit of God ticket in criticizing those who decide over them in a legitimate capacity. You just let a child grow up in the spirit of criticism of their father and mother, and it'll be a miracle, an absolute miracle, if they'll embrace the work of God. Because they become rebellious in their youth to legitimate authority, and they'll never be subject to it. And let these other things just grow up in our lives, and we'll have nothing but trouble. Now we have a responsibility. God is beginning to reveal to the people.
Some matters pertaining to the purity of our lives, the condition that we've got to come to before that we can have the kingdom of God and the house of God set in order. And they're beginning to be unfolded to our minds. How these people will respond to these things is still some question in my mind. I believe you all desire it, but until we can accomplish these other things, there'll be not much use of teaching.
very little use of teaching these other things pertaining to the laws of the priesthood until we can establish these remedial things. Because they'll not be practiced outside of the temple of God. And we can't take all this disunion and disunity and pitifulness and rebelliousness into the house of the Lord. It just won't work. I take it as a good sign that we're beginning to...
get some understanding on these matters and the lord is beginning to pare the way in our minds to understand them and with the hope i presume that they can be passed on to the people it'll be done just as far as the world to a keeper who can keep themselves in order i see i see much better conditions than i ever dreamed you'd see 10 or 15 years ago getting very wholesome they're still spreading to certain things, it comes to our ears, the governor getting ambitious, to feel that we want you going to qualify yourselves in the fullness of the gospel as fast as possible. If these young women will do what's right, the young women will do what's right without being urged, and make themselves available to the president, and go and lay themselves before the priesthood and say that they want to live the laws of the gospel.
And how the Lord revealed to them where they could go and what they could do, and that could relieve you brethren of the responsibility of going around and converting. And I believe that we ought to as far as we possibly can relax in these matters, and be called up as we ought to be called up, instead of being called down, and becoming contentious and ambitious over progressing and establishing ourselves and following the gospel. All I can go by is what I've been taught and what the Spirit dictates to me.
I understand that a man has no right, as I have absolutely no right, as I understand the naked truth, to try to impose himself upon the dead in the law of thoroughness. I understand that strictly a law of the priesthood, and it has to do with qualifying a man in his calling as an elder, as a 70, as a high priest, and he's qualified as he's prepared.
He's qualified as he's prepared, just like he's called him to be. He's done it, wouldn't anymore, and comes to Brother Johnson and says, well, I'm tired of being an elder. I'd like to be ordained a peasant. He even moves with a good deal of caution to the priesthood when he's a priest and says, well, I'd like to receive a military priesthood. He's pretty slow about it. Now, I think that that's far more legitimate, far more legitimate than it is to go to the devil and impose ourselves upon him.
and the solicitation of additional families. Of course, we've come up through hard times. This church has imposed a pretty hard condition upon us. And the brethren have not been able. John and Joseph and Lauren and Leslie and the brethren who have directed this work have not had it that useful for young women who are ready to do the bidding of the Lord. And we have to have to send different men. This man, Edwin Burke.
different ones that come to our minds. They were sent out by the priesthood, converted there, by the Gideon sent out, and he told us some other funny stories, things that he encountered. And I think I had to tell a funny one or two myself. I was in a funny mood, and I look back and you take all the funniness out of it. But we were sent. We were sent to do these things. And I took a man out of Ted slowly till he sent. I got a bottle, got a mussel, and I consumed Brother Johnson.
They've directed and sent men. I saw them tested, sent men, to do a certain work. Some of them have succeeded and some of them have been flawful and lack confidence and haven't moved. They're not neither here nor there. I think if the young women want to have the protection of the peace that they can have it. If you see a young girl getting up into maturity and the first thing you know she can't wait because the men aren't paying attention to her and minding their business.
It was like they'd never seen anything. He said, well, I'm not going to stay around this country. I'm going to go where I'm noted. He said he'd take me back to the war, but he'd speak to Salt Lake, he'd speak to some other times, bring me attention. He said, well, you better go see if you can't gather that girl up. He said, well, you better go see if you can't gather that girl up.
I don't know whether I should put any courage into your business or not. But I hope I have. I'd like to, if I could have my wish and my heavenly Father, I'd like to be able to develop a spirit that I could cause the saints to desire the things of the kingdom of God. The desire has been created in me from some source or another. That a muscle has created, that a doctor has created, that a boss has created, that desire in me. A Johnson in his coming time, a guy in middle, and all these dead in the world.
It's truly the desire in me that keeps driving me on, that I want to obtain the blessings that are in store for the saints of God, which the Lord has promised. He put it in writing. The certain conditions that prevail for us that we can obtain those things. And I want my desires. And I'd like to have the power and the ability to persuade new people to desire them. I feel right. And I believe that I'm right. I believe the Spirit dictates me right.
I'd like to have the spirit and the power to convince you women that you ought to try to make peace with your husband. Quit being a damn believer. I've had enough experience in this work myself, but I know how these things work. I've seen these things work out. The woman that submissives and is helpful and contributes with a gentle spirit and a helpful mood is the one that moves a man up in the work of God. The one that's always trying to tell you more.
Tearing him down and trying to revamp and defeat her is the one that's giving him experience and making him thankful he's never bought himself for the ones he didn't get. It just works that way and you can't help it. You can't stop it. There's people around me I can't help but increase my confidence and my devotion and my longing for their society and my appreciation and all the other lovely adjectives that can come to a man's mind. They just naturally grow.
and they multiply and those of the opposite make it a particularly bad move. It works with the people, it works with the family, it works with children. The principle is extended from the top to the bottom. You can go into the organization of the church and the President Young said it's so perfect, it's organized so completely that it makes it impossible for an imposter to abuse the saints and let the right to be abused. It's an impossibility.
God says that staying in order is impossible for people to get hurt. And so it is in a family unit. It's impossible for us to get hurt if we submit to God. I would like to send it to older women. Go out in this world and help. It's love in the mind. Find a world where we all flock around to. To a bit of confidence. A bit of encouragement. A sip of tea. And a piece of deadly butter. Why? It's simply because we like to imbibe it with spirit.
And how did she get it? Giving bread a bottle, hell, morning, noon, and night. It was the very opposite. She had confidence in it. Not only was her wife in contentment, but she was obtained the confidence to preach it as it was ministered. It was the laws of the gospel. So far as we have the right to receive them and give them. And if we had more perfect people in behalf of God, if that in order should be, the busy few wouldn't know what to do at her age today.
and keeps her conveyance picking up and taking her to the house of God and she'd be there at 7 o'clock in the morning and she'd stay there and they'd bring her lunch to her late at night and she obtained that by obtaining the confidence of the priesthood she held her tongue and held her teeth she'd be the kid of her and she'd always bear that well I know what she's thinking but what I think of the eye all eyes of the night that woman's get out of her bed and come and unlock the door and let go of her hand I come at her heart Every hour of the night. It was about 9 o'clock in the evening till 5 o'clock in the morning. And I just had to go just to wake up and see if anybody was at that door. Why did I go to her house until it was somebody else's house? Because every time that she or I kept her or her struggling to that old door, I felt a good old warm stir coming up. That's why. You women, you men, let's live this law hard as some man when he's damned good, sick, and tired.
Cut it for a certain house instead of for another one. And it might break your heart if you find out the truth. But it's how I feel. And if you say that my men act, then I'll tell it anyway. I mean, you people might have known a few years ago that I had some pretty serious stomach hurts there. I don't know what caused them, but they hurt. They just go right up those walls with my hands. And I was sleeping in a certain place, and that pain hit me in the middle of the night. And do you know what I did?
Out of that bed, and I dressed, and I went to God at his house, and just as Dan took us out to get there. Doesn't take as many people. You think I head for a house where someone's going to keep me awake talking all night? I'm going to head for a house that lays me down in peace. See that there's no friction, no quarreling, no need for me to lay awake, or apologize for where I've been, or how late I've come home, or why I didn't laugh, or why I didn't swim, or why I didn't send some rogues to run out of there, or let me down soon if you can come home.
Yes. Now those things are important. And I think it's important that we carry on these sorts of places in our lives. I don't think I could abuse them and never speak to them again because I'm out of breath. But there comes a time when the people have to have a little relief. They have to have some relief. And I think that we ought to learn to feel for one another. We ought to.
I'm getting along and really fine with myself, but I have some respect for what he's living under. And I have to feel for his welfare. It's my duty, because God's entrusted me to it. And I think that a woman ought to feel after a man's health. And in turn, a man should certainly feel after a woman's health. And if you develop these attitudes, a lot of these other habits that we set up and these troublesome things will fade away.
I don't know how many of you people have confidence in my ability. A lot of my whole time friends have given me the consideration of the thing that I was at least sincere in my belief. I don't know how sharp or... There would be from the other side that I could be more sure about positions in relation to the gospel of Jesus Christ. If I could put it this way and so it wouldn't sound too heavy and know-it-all, I'd say it like this. Just as sure, just as sure as the angel Moroni, just as the father Joseph Smith, being as a preacher to the community. If that happened, we've got it. If we've got it, we're here. We're standing as a community.
And that in a spirit and atmosphere that we knew that we were given it. This person has that knowledge for themselves, and that's why we're staying in this work day after day and year after year. That's why the children are coming up and carrying on in our text. It's because of security that's bringing it. And I think these things are worth dying for. I think it is worth establishing peace in this society of people for in order to obtain the knowledge of God. Because just as sure as we bring peace and unity, So this group of people just as surely will come to revelations of the mind and will of God and the setting over the heart of God and the visitations of the priesthood from the other side. Just as surely as we have come to have it. There isn't any doubt about it. I'm not talking about overcoming all our weaknesses. This people has weaknesses for years in and years out. After the priesthood come and the prophet Joseph come, we'll have to label what he's in there.
consistencies and the inabilities of our characters to perform holy the law of God the justice cookies we obtain unity upon the principle of the God for desiring these things in the proper atmosphere under the direction of the spirit of God and we obtain peace and harmony with the priesthood that resides over we will obtain this further likeness we will follow just like a just like a son follows a daughter or the darkness follows us down. It's inevitable. It took us these families and this preacher that claims this thing. And the preacher just got it now. And the only thing that he refers to the most part and the only thing that I see left to do is to be sure that we've got it. There's got to come a trial. The trial of our faith here. To be sure that we're behind Brother Johnson and that we can follow his dictates. And just as sure as God is sure of that,
She would begin to honor the judge. You, brother-in-law, and just as sure as you sisters, can prove to yourself, as are your husbands and the priesthood, that you can unite with them and help establish this work, this work will go on, and you will never be driven from your homes again, if you obtain this name. But if you don't, what are we subject to? Why are we subject to the adversary when we can't escape it? Because we've got to be subject to one or the other.
The only way that we can become subject to God is to be one with him. The only way it can be done. We don't have to be perfect in our character in order to attain that one thing. This perfection is going to come with the years. I know we're not going to be so foolish to believe that we can wake up tomorrow morning with all these idiosyncrasies of our various personalities and characters gone. That won't happen after. It never has and it never will.
Wake up tomorrow morning at peace. We can make a firm resolution and carry it out. But this insubordination will cease. Once that ceases, the revelations of the mind and will of God will begin to flow to this people. Blessings will be added day after day and year after year until the Lord has prepared a way to bestow all the choice blessings that He has to bestow upon this people. And when we can get where we can...
keep him in order. He was set in order at the house of God. We've been told that we should pray to set him in order at the house of God. Well, I believe. I desire it myself. But I feel fearful and ashamed that the prophet Joseph would come into the midst of this people and try to set him in order at the house of God and no one to help keep him in order. Try to get a ward or a bishop or anybody that we could put in charge of this people and the people wouldn't uphold him. It would be a sickness.
And of course, God wouldn't be so foolish as to fall into class because he knows our characters and can read the signs of the times. If these things are here for us, then let's do it. We've often been told in our church, and I make this one remark. You women, folks, you men, if you want us to get together, I want this girl or I want this man. Well, now we've got each other, and it would be a happy day if we could belly it and pose it on me. And I didn't put any harm about that.
right here and talk right now. I'm glad if you're here, let's make the best of it. The same you said about the other person. If you're here, let's make the best of it. Let's work at this. We're converted to it and let's begin to excel. Establishment is confidence and just work. Once we get confidence, that is our enemy.
Sources
- From the Historical Short Creek archive, 1960 documents. Duration 52:18. Automatic transcript (unreviewed). Speaker identification is from the archive file name, checked against the opening of the recording where it names or introduces the speaker.
This transcript is free to read. The full recording is for members. No public media URL is listed here.