Talk of J. M. Hammon, Salt Lake City, 6 November 1960
6 November 1960
Talk of J. M. Hammon, Salt Lake City, 6 November 1960
A talk by J. M. Hammon at a general meeting at the Fischer home in Salt Lake City. The archive file is labeled J. M. Hammon. The automatic transcript of the opening does not clearly name the speaker. The text is an automatic, unreviewed transcript of the recording, lightly paragraphed for reading. The recording itself is the source.
Members · Full recording · 51:50
President Hammond will be our next speaker. Grateful brothers and sisters to be here. Pray for the Spirit of the Lord to bless me that I might be able to fulfill this assignment. I've been pleased with the things that I've heard. Sister Blackform left the pulpit in a good condition for Brother Timpson, and he's left it in a good condition for me. I hope when I get through with it that it'll be fit for someone else to stand in. I rejoice.
in the privilege of meeting with you people being numbered among you and being considered of our heavenly father that i've been brought to the knowledge of the truth and placed in the custody of the priest of god we learn many things in our lives by comparison and i only have to reflect on my past to appreciate the present paul spoke of the awful condition that he was in of course he was a persecutor of the saints, which I hope I've never been, but I have certainly been in conditions where I marvel now that God ever was able to find me and bring me to the Society of the Saints. I recognize when I look back on my life that I've been a marked man, and I'm grateful for this knowledge because the present would be difficult to endure if I thought that I hadn't been
under the observation of the priesthood on the other side from my boyhood on. When I visit with my brethren and I hear them contemplate on their lives and they recite to me the experiences of their youth, I find that they were marked men. Points of discussion and argument, we had no place among the society in which we lived. I often think of Brother Jeffs and Brother Guy and Brother Johnson and Brother Musser.
Brother Barlow, and all the men that we've known. Every man that's had to bear the responsibility of the priesthood in the earth has been watched over by the Lord and moved around in various circumstances that they could finally be gathered up. I think of the many opportunities that I had to be led away by my relatives, by the circumstances of life, the enticements of labor and money and how the overruling hand of providence guided me into this work. Discussing the blessings of God with one of my brethren one day, we were very quickly and readily agreed upon the fact that language can't tell, or the tongue express, the blessings that are associated with the saints of God. No one can tell a thing of this kind until
No one can know of these blessings until they've been experienced, and the tongue is incompetent to pass the information along. They used to wonder in the early pioneer days what made the Mormons the way they were, and I suppose they never found out, and this is one of the reasons. They praised God for their persecution, and they praised God for their days of prosperity, and their enemies couldn't understand why.
Many of us didn't know why, I guess, until we began to experience some of the blessings that were reaped by our predecessors. When I think of what's been done for me in my lifetime to make my life and blessings possible at this time, I feel very humble. When I think of the great labor and time expended by Joseph W. Musser, to gather up a little handful of people in Idaho. I'm appalled. I've had occasion recently to reflect upon those days, and those reflections led to more reflections. And I wonder who I was, and who Brother Cook was, and our families, and a few of our friends that merited the attention of so great a man. We think these are things of a small moment, and maybe at those In those days, they were small moments to us because of our smallness. We had no capacity to appreciate because we had no eyes to see, nor ears to hear, nor feelings to feel. But as now we've survived his life and labors, we look back in retrospect and see the hours that he toiled and the days that he worked and the sacrifices that he made to perpetuate this work and feel that we were numbered among his protégés.
We feel deeply moved to think that God was so kind to bring us to his attention. These days and these privileges that we have of mingling with each other and reaping and drinking in so deeply and bounteously in the knowledge of the gospel are days that we'll look back upon and relish and cherish as long as time lasts and into eternity. And I join with Brother Timpson and Sister Blackmore in the spirit of gratitude.
I'm grateful for the integrity of Brother Johnson. It's made this day possible. And his integrity isn't something that he was particularly born with. Integrity is something that we develop through our work and our labors and the way that we handle the experiences that come. It's something that can be bartered away or wasted or lost in a single act. And so when we find a man's head going gray, he's filled with integrity.
Then we begin to understand what's brought it about. And for his integrity, I'm grateful. I suppose if I could be grateful for more things in his integrity, I'm grateful for his example of obedience. The fruits of his labors has brought us a marvelous harvest. And we've not only heard with our ears, but we've seen with our eyes the fruits of this principle. This man's obedience has weathered some of the fiercest storms that's blown in this dispensation.
And it's brought him to a condition in life where he's revered and honored and he's respected. And not only that, but it's made him useful in the kingdom of God and my children and many of you who are here today in another 20 years. Look back upon his life and his labors and you'll bow your heads in gratitude. If there's one principle in this life that will draw us together, it's this one. And if it could be by the grace of God.
that this people could become grateful enough for their blessings they might get to the place where they'd take better care of them this would be a lonely field of labor if we were alone i so very often think of the word of the lord to the prophet joseph smith when he was in liberty jail and he was so stirred in his feelings because of the fierce hardships that was placed upon him because of the dungeon, the filth and corruption that was being heaped about him continued. And the Lord reminded him that his friends hadn't forsaken him. And so I think of the tremendous blessings that I reap through my association with my brethren. We often, through the vicissitudes of life, appear to be tried, show some exasperation from time to time because of our brethren's weaknesses. But God forbid.
I ever let them show enough in my life that they overshadow the sense of gratitude I feel for the nearness of my brethren. I'm reaching a stage in my life where this sense of gratitude is teaching me to try and revere and respect not only my blessings, but theirs. And if I can do that, then I can begin to respect the life and labors of the saints of God who've gone on before us.
and made this day possible. I loathe with a fierce intensity my shabbiness, and I loathe with a fierce intensity the shabbiness of this people, and I don't want the spirit of contentment to permeate my bosom. As long as my character is unfit to be ushered into the presence of God, and as long as there is a spirit of ingratitude, the blessings of my brethren and sisters in this work, I'm sure that my character will never be God-like. And it would be a happy day if the camps of Israel, if there could come very quickly into the lives of this people a respect and a sense of devotion for all the blessings that God heaps upon us, not just our own. We had occasion to review some of our financial affairs last Saturday, yesterday, and I had a feeling in my heart
that led me to make this remark, that let's hope and pray and praise God and be thankful for every dollar that comes into the hands of the people who are trying to build up the kingdom. Brother Pimpsons would suddenly get a few thousand in his hands or Brother Johnson or Brother anybody who's got the kingdom of God at heart, someone would prosper and this kingdom would begin to give an impetus. And I believe that we would rejoice more sweetly.
and respectfully over a blessing of that kind, then we rejoice when an addition is made to one of our brethren's families. For there seems to be a lack, a downright shabbiness in about 85 to 90 percent of this people when it comes to respecting the blessings that are placed around the saints of God. We pray the Lord so fervently that he will shelter us and shield us, preserve us and protect us.
Prosperous this way and that. Shabby and stinky in trying to protect somebody else in the self-same. Now this is not the earmarks of saints. Nothing whatsoever. And if I can't rejoice and show gratitude enough for my brethren's blessings, then I'm certainly not on the way that I want to go. Because we're not going to be exalted alone. There'll be no exaltation, as the prophet Joseph said.
for him or me or Brother Johnson or Brother anybody to be exalted above the saints. My hope and aspiration is to be exalted with the saints. And in such a condition, I've got to learn to revere, respect the things that surround my brethren. I've said this before, and I had no intentions. I had some things outlined I was going to talk about. I snared it, it was like the Lord took me at my word.
putting things into my mind, and I think I'll try to carry out his wishes. You women are cherished and loved, I suppose, above all the women of the earth. And yet I suppose that you're living way below par, way below half of what you might enjoy. If you would change your ways and your conditions of your integrity and your minds, that the brethren might begin to honor you.
and respect you as they do themselves. I could just, just as quick as I can, fast as I can talk, and you know how fast I can talk when I start, I could just name names of brethren that I can see who I have the utmost respect for. Their integrity for their everything. But when I look at the women folks that surround them, I back off and stand aghast and wonder if I'm in the society of friends or enemies. But God's true. Maybe Brother Hammond isn't.
too sound, you can look at me the way you want to. But that's the fear that takes possession of my bosom when I look at the women folks that surround my friends. I'm not talking about individuals. I'm talking about a collective group. If you don't look at me much the same way, why, then you're not on the ball. I don't believe all the people that surround me respect your blessings like I do. Now, what's the matter? One day, you and And you, and you, and all of you are going to be in the temple with us. We're going to go there and take our covenants together, the self-same covenants. We're going to be endowed together. We're going to make the same covenants and promises. Be endowed with the same light and knowledge. And how are we going to treat it? And what are we going to use it for? I look at you women individually and I can't find fault with you. How can a man find fault with his own?
I look at my wife, and all that springs up in my bosom is a sense of gratitude. That's all that I can get to come up in my heart. But what lacks? What lacks? Why is it that I can trust this man, and this, and this, and all the rest, and Brother Johnson can trust me, and yet we have to be apprehensive of our women, folks? Don't try to answer now, but I wish you'd answer the Lord when you get home. And try to tell him what's the matter with you, and then try to get him to overcome it, because you are not trustworthy.
when it comes to the secrets of the men who hold the keys to your blessings. Someday, some of the brethren here are going to manage and direct and preside over kingdoms of which you'll be a part. If my judgment serves me right, you'll never reach that stage until you manifest the same kind of integrity that your husband does. We have a Blackmore family before us tonight, so they ought to be using the example.
If Sister Gwen doesn't reach the place where she can button her lip and regard her husband's affairs and his contacts and the circumstances that comes in the purview of his mind with the same sanctity and integrity that he does, she'll never stand quite beside him. She'll just be a little bit lower. It can't be any other way. He might be glad to have her. I'm not saying anything about that. I'm not trying to pass judgment on the black smarts. I'm just trying to illustrate that that's the place that this...
society has got to come to. We're praying for God to set the church in order and everything, but here's part of the setting in order, and we're so irresponsive to these pleas. Brother Barlow and Brother Musser could trust each other as implicitly as any two men I ever knew. When I was called into the council of the priesthood, I was made aware of Brother Barlow's circumstances, and Brother Musser says, now, Mary, and he says, you're taking an important part.
And this work, and I want you to know some things. From that day to this, the things that he told me has never passed my lips. Thank God I've got a shelf back in here someplace that I lay some of those things on. I've dusted it off well. I've left them lay there. Now isn't there a shelf in the mind of a woman who's got the same cranial capacities where things can be laid and left in regard to the sanctity and sacredness? If there isn't, then how in the world can you ever be brought into the house of God and have all the secrets of the kingdom laid before you? There's mighty few secrets left in the kingdom of God. I'll tell you this much. After you've had all the doctrines of the kingdom laid before you, you all have the power of deduction. And if you're going to have the doctrines, you can certainly comprehend the blessings. And what is there left? The doctrine of blood atonement, the doctrine of everything.
Adoption and all that pertains to the priesthood have to be laid before the women because it involves the lives of their husbands and their relationship to one another and the people that they're associated with. So for women who stand up high in the ranks of the kingdom of God, there's very little that they won't know. How come that Lizar Snow can write such things as she's written, could write such things as she's written?
How come that she could reveal such doctrines as she revealed if she wasn't in the confidence of her husband? We so boastfully and cheerfully review before the saints that Eliza R. Snow said this because she was taught it by the prophet Joseph Smith. Why, I wouldn't hesitate to teach a faithful woman any doctrine that I know. Any doctrine that I know, I might be reticent and certainly very careful about revealing all these.
Blessings surround my brethren, and if she was a woman of God, she'd be just as careful as I would be. I don't mind saying that Gladys has got secrets locked up in her heart that I know nothing about. Father, the only way I could find them out is to call for them in the name of God. She means to you, but that kind of integrity standing by me makes me glow. And I would to God that I could have the same respect for all the women I know in this group.
as I have. I wish that my brethren's secrets were just as safe in every woman's heart as they are in her. Brother Barlow could seal Aunt Susie's lips here just as tight as he could seal Joseph W. Musser's lips. If he says Susie is a secret of the priesthood, it would never find utterance. Is it possible? Is it possible that there's only three or four women in this whole society with such There's only one Susie and only one Margaret and only one. Is that possible? What a pitiful condition these brethren are in. There's only one Edna Zitting in this group. Warren Wally said, give me 12 men, and I'll shake this state of Utah to its very foundations. You know, if I had the courage, I don't have it, but if I had the courage to challenge you, I'd say, Lauren, their women would defeat you. It would cost you your life, and you'd win or lose the race.
Because the women surrounding those 12 men would then do you. Is there a woman that dare challenge that statement? Show me if you dare challenge that statement. That you women can't destroy this work. And will do. Don't seal your lips and develop more integrity than I see around the women I associate. I wouldn't say that I knew Joseph Musser like his son Guy. But I'll tell you there's very few men living outside of Guy that knew him much better than I did.
come damn near being like him, received Kimball, going into the celestial kingdom, wifeless and childless, and preceded him. Not that they didn't button their lip. I don't have any recollection of any of them telling me much. Joseph devoted his life and labors to the building up of the kingdom of God. And I saw the women dropping away just like that. Now they were they, and you are you. You say, well, his women were thus and so.
cuff my ears if he was here for talking about his affairs. But I'll tell you, it's a damn poor commentary when a man like him didn't get more support and comfort and blessings out of the women. How high can he exalt him? Just as high as any man that I know of. I didn't know Joe Smith or Brigham Young. I know very little of their life. But all the men that's ever passed the purview of my mind, there's none of them.
could exalt a woman higher than Joseph W. Musser. Now what are you women going to do with this woman? Are you just tagging along behind the men because the men are determined to have another wife and try to work themselves out a salad? Exaltation, is that all the knowledge and understanding that you possess relative to this thing? Is the only ambition that fires you to stand beside your husband is because you don't want to lose him?
Haven't you any more light and knowledge and intelligence pertaining to the celestial kingdoms than that? After all the preaching and preaching and preaching, it's gone on. Has it ever been any different? We've had women. But I think this percentage is deplorably low in this dispensation of women who has upheld the priesthood like they ought to. Now we've had some damn rascals for men, I grant that. But I look into this society of people with me.
pretty knowing eyes. There's hardly a man that I don't know that's moving along in this work. And I know the women that are sure. And I've got a lot of confidence, a lot of confidence in the men I know. Good to God that I could find a few women standing around them that I could have the same kind of confidence in. You know, you know as well as you know anything that I'm not being unjust or unfair. You know it as well as I'm standing here and that I'm...
You're sitting here and I'm standing. This is a true picture of this little body of people that's trying to make saints of themselves. Now, if you know your faults, let's start to correct them. Maybe we better start with our children in the hope that the next generation that comes along will begin to show some of these very, very remedial qualities in the lives of the saints of the Most High God. I think I'll take a few more minutes and perpetuate this thought.
We've had a lot of talk here in our day and time about the Church of the Firstborn. Do you know who members of the Church of the Firstborn are? Are the men bearing the priesthood of God who are qualified in the law of celestial marriage and their wives? Do you think that I talk about the brethren going places where you don't have the right to go? It's true we hold a few council meetings and priesthood meetings. When we start to exalting ourselves, we administer every right and ordinance to the women that we administer to ourselves. And we're ready.
and anxious and able to share our confidence with you for attending to the knowledge of the gospel of Jesus Christ, if you'll just show some inclination and desires of wanting it, and after getting it, hold it in as sacred and as dignified a manner as you expect your husbands to hold it. I've never heard Aunt Susie complain about Uncle John. Never heard her. Sucked tea and had bread and butter with her many, many times. Most regard he had for her.
I've ridden with him up and down between here and Shark Creek numerous times. I wouldn't be boastful, but many more times than I could numerate on my fingers and toes. He often told me about Susie, how the brethren could trust her. Now, do we want Susie to be exalted alone, or do we want to exalt some of the other women with her? Do you think it's a long trail? Well, it isn't. It's just a long trail. It's a very, very short one. It's one that you could cross tonight in your sleep.
Make up your mind and your prayers tonight that things are going to be different, and tomorrow morning you're on the right track and you're there. If you begin to regard the secrets of this people, not the priesthood, but this people, with the same sanctity that your husbands regarded, this work would have just gone like that. It's over the top, because we've got men who will die standing in their own blood defending this war. Are you women going to spill it?
revealing to our enemies all our secrets and passing it along till it's caught in the wind and goes straight to the seat of our persecutors. You want Brother Johnson, you want Brother Guy, you want Brother everybody to come and administer to your wants and preach to you and teach. But how far will you go to preserve their sanctity? Oh, Brother so-and-so, come and seal this, our daughter, this man. Come and do this, come and do that.
They bow and scrape and praise God. He lays his life in your hands and goes away trembling. Now this is an important phase of this work. It's one that's hard to talk about. Suppose only a brazen man like me has the audacity to approach it. It is something that has a crying need. It's a crying need for vitality and integrity in the bosom of these. Oh, you'll bear children. You'll work and you'll slay. Scrimp.
wash an iron, God knows what all you'd do. I don't. I've seen most of you doing it. You'll do everything but one thing, and that's preserve the integrity of this people. And I'd be happy to see that day, and I know Brother Johnson would, and I know the brothers would start to get in their boots on, if they could see their women start to stepping up beside them and manifesting the integrity that they need to, and say, well, here, I'm ready. I'm ready to take off.
I'm ready to do this and so. These women are moving along as fast as I am. I had some pleasant reflections in my mind. And I don't know what's any more pleasant than this. To contemplate a people that's united. Oh, you want Roy and I. You want us to see eye to eye. If we should ever have a break of opinion, you'd hate one and love the other. Sure as the world. But you can go along and on and on and on. Butchering.
Cutting the hearts out of your husbands day in and day out. Expecting us to like it. But I don't like it. Having very much confidence. Until we begin to show new signs. Have confidence in what I consider a host of men. Considering our numbers. A host of us. That are taking on solemnity. And a disposition to try to serve God that's very heartfelt and gratifying. And it shows to me that God is ready to bless his people. And that he's owning this.
He hasn't spewed us out of his mouth. We're here and we continue to meet. We get instructions. We receive blessings week after week and year after year. There's this lack. There's this lack of confidence and ability to preserve this work into whose hands is it committed? Oh, you'd say it's committed to the hands of the priesthood. But with whom do we do our work? And where does our secrets lie?
If all we had to contend with was seven men, there'd be no problem. But just as quick as we start to work, who do we work with? Why, we work with this man and woman, and this man and woman, and this man, and this man, and this man. And we spread the secrets of the kingdom among the people. Why, what stinking little secrets has Brother Johnson and I got between us that doesn't involve some other people? Why, they don't mount to that. Our secrets are with you, and we fear and tremble.
Well, I pray God that this spirit, the gratitude, the love, after you get home you will put the rest of the adjectives, will take possession of this people. And when I tell you that I believe that I have just as much regard for the blessings of my brethren, I believe that I am telling you the truth as I have for my own. And I don't know why I can't permeate every other person in this group that's been through the same kind of experiences and hardships that I've been through. I don't know why one, my lessons, won't teach a woman as well as they'll teach me. Margaret was carrying chicken to Guy and a little bit of eat so he wouldn't die. Up here in the county jail, it looks to me like Margaret would teach you the same lessons it taught him. I bet you that your heartache is as bad as it is his. I bet you shed tears in your prayers night and morning as quickly as he shed. So Margaret has been placed in a position of responsibility with the priesthood. She's almost our secretary.
Now, why hasn't the experience of other men going to prison and other men having to scatter their families and drive and drive and drive and travel from hell to breakfast looking after their people? Why hasn't it taught the rest of you to see your daughters whisked away and you didn't know when you'd see them again? And when they come back, they have grown families. Why hasn't it put integrity to everybody? Brother Johnson visiting those women down there in Phoenix.
and Mesa, Snowflake, and all over hell's creation. Why didn't that put integrity in the women? The same as it put in Roy Johnson. We all have an algebra class here today. You women learn your algebra and the men learn your algebra. You walk in the other room and you can solve the same kind of problems. Why doesn't blood and tears teach us all the same lessons? I wish you could answer me. I just, I wish God would tell me. Somebody.
Why we have to go around in the midst of a people that we adore and love and give our life's blood for and we can't trust them as far as we can see them. I see some of you coming and I run. I stuff my wives and my kids in the closet for fear that you're going to tell all I know what you don't know. That's the best of you, not the worst. My wife in Shark Creek ducks and dodges and locks the door and shuts the bedroom and sits as quiet as a mouse.
So people will think that she's not at home because somebody's knocking at the door that she can't trust through into her kitchen. Don't tell me it wasn't me or isn't somebody close to us because I know just as well as I'm drawing breath who they are. What can you do about it? Why is it when a woman gets old and gray, her tongue gets loose at both ends? When she's young and frivolous, she has no respect.
One of my sons would go out and blab some of the things that I hear young girls and women talking about. I'd take him out and thrash him with an inch of his life. I'd make him plead for his life. God made Joseph Smith plead for his life when he was disobedient, and I'd shake those boys till their teeth rattled. You can't touch a girl. You can't do this with her. You can't do that with her. They're privileged characters to rip and tear apart and desecrate the integrity of the priesthood.
If you want to have any continuation of the love and confidence and blessings of the men that are standing with you, you've got to change your ways. God bless you. Amen. President Mutter will make the address.
Sources
- From the Historical Short Creek archive, 1960 documents. Duration 51:50. Automatic transcript (unreviewed). Speaker identification is from the archive file name, checked against the opening of the recording where it names or introduces the speaker.
This transcript is free to read. The full recording is for members. No public media URL is listed here.