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AN INTERVIEW

HLIM

MORONI JESSOP

BY

ARNOLD

BOSS

Moroni Jessop died 22 Feb. 1952 Arnold Boss died 3 July, 1969

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Page1 I have been intiaately assoeiated with Moroni Jessop for some eight years. During that period of time we have attonded meetings togother--publie and privato; have been in eaeh others soeiety and at eaah gether; ate and slopt together, and throughout the past oight years have (having worked ror and lived with John W. Woolley and his son Lorin C. Woolley) two of the prophets or God.I have heard him relate matters from time to tine whieh I eonsider of great historieal importaneo,and have felt they should be presarved and dietated by himself that future generations might lmow what they were. In this spirit I approashed brother Jessop. I asked him ir he would dietateto me things whieh he had related from time to time,some publielj, and others privately, to me. These deelarations I eonsider of sueh importanee I knew it was best to havo him dietate his own words,thon in arter years, there eould be no room for mlsinterpretation and isunderstandings, upon the utterance he was heard to make. I have learned from experience no two people ean sit alike. One understands some matters told one way, another understands then some other way,-yot both may have heard the same deelarations as they fell from the iips of thenarrator. I approaehed brother Moroni Jessop and expressed my wishes to him. I toldwhat Iwould like him to do,whieh was,dictate word for word what I mew ho lmow to be true,what he saw,what he heard said and taught, and the impression these things had upon him. He eonsented to meot me and dietate the same that they might be preserved for future history. To aeeomplish this.we two met together on four seperate aceasions the dates wiii be given later.We met in my home, 36o Harrison Arenuo, Salt Lake City,Utah,and as I would ask the questions, he answered them. Signed,

THB TESTIMONY OF MORONI JESSOP.

Thursday morming February 26, i942. How old are you and where do Jou now live? "I am 67years or age.I live at 74l south,8th East street,Salt Lake City, Utah.I was born in Millville,Utah,Caehe valley, Utah,November 3rd, I874n. Where and when did you first meet Lorin C. Woolley? "I met Lorin at East Miil Creek in the fall of 1922, about twenty years ago.Imet his father,John W.Woolloy,first in Igi9, in the fall of that year. Israel Barlow introduced me to granpa Woolley.We rirst met on Temple Bloek. He was sitting on a beneh there. It was eonrerenee tine. He, at this time, had been eut orf the ehurah, how long before I dont lmow. He told me then he was there as a witness,

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Page2 and that he came there svery conrerence time to listen to what was said. He spoke to Israel, who had also been cut orf from the Chureh beeause or plural marriage.At that time, Israel was having trouble with some or the authorities oftho Chureh over it. Israol said,Brother Woolley, I want you to meet a rriend or mine'. Brother John said, what is his name? He was then told my name. He turned to me and said, lAre you a friend or Israol?n I said,"yes He said, hso am Iw, He asked further, "Aro you a WAre you in the same boat as Israel is? I answered,"yes, and no'. He said, lHow is that? I said, lIsrael's wire lert him arter he got into plural marriage and took a plural wife, mine lert me berors I got anothern, He then said, l'I want to shake hands with you again' He then told me what to do, it was to'go and get two more wies, and remembor it takes three to mako a quorun". When I loft him he said, lI am mighty glad to meet you". I again met hin the next fall on the temple grounds and in the same plaee We shook hands again. Then I never met hin again until I started to work at the Baldwin Radio Plant. How did you @ome to go to the Baldwin Radio Plant? I was munning a raneh ror one Alma Waterson, Northwest or Logan at tho time. In the fall arter munning it through the summer I reeieved a letter from Israel Barlow asking me,how would you like & job, an inside Job ror the winter? I sat dowm and answered him,I would accept of one. I went to Salt Lake the next day and met Israel. I met him at East Mill Radio Plant. Lorin, at the timo,was in Chieago on business at the time. over the winter, now about 22 years ago.However, I did not work right ton eanyon. There I worked until late November when snow fell and we had

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P&go3 to quit. I went to work at the plant about January I,following. I met John Y.Barlow while I was working at Mill Creek, and it was there he introduced me to Lorin in the fall or 1922. When I was introdueed to him, he said: WE HAVE NoT MET BY CHANCEil. I boarded at Israel Barlows. While boarding at Israelis place Lorin also eame and lodged there. Lorin and I ate and slept at Israel's nearly all one winter, exeept maybe, ono night a week when he would go over and stay with John Y.In Mareh of 1923, I moved my family down from Caehe valley. Lorin took quite a notion to me from tho start and I to him. He talked eonfidentially to me right from the rirst. Whon Joseph and Lyman Jessop eame to work there, whieh was later than my coming, Lorin was in the East. I said to them, You will see the biggest little man you ever have seen in this world whon he eomes baok. We used to hold meetings in the Baldwin Radio Plant after work at 4 p.n. I few seleeted mon would be ealled into a private orfiee, the door would be shut, and we would hold meetings with unole Lorin and Dan Bateman. Part or the time Baldwin would be there too,and these meotings would last as high as rrom four to six hours--sometimes until nine and ten o'eloek at night before we would get out of our ehairs.Suoh meetings would happen once, twieo, and sometimes three times a week. Only certain men were ealled into them. The names of some of the men who attended were: my brother Joe, John Y. Dan and Ill (Israel Barlow), the latter going in and out &s he was the night watehman. There were others with Lorin and myself. These gonerally were the ones. In these meetings they would tell us what happened in the early days of the Chureh, here in the valleys, and what would happen in the future in the Chureh, the nation and the world. In one of these meetings Professor Josiah Hickman from Logan came to learn about some facts. What he wanted to lmow was in eonnoetion with what took plaee in 1886.That meeting lasted for several hours.It was a long ono.Professor Hiekan was greatly

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P&ge4 the interview he asked Lorin for permission to reveal eertain things whieh took place in September,1886, at the eight hour meeting.Lorin told he could tell. In this meeting Dan (Batenan) related sone things whieh had happened, and told of others which was yet to take plaeo. And as he told them, and as Lorin eonfirmed then, both would ooassionally walk up and down the offiee room with tears running down their faees. It was in this meeting, and so far as I lmow,it was the first timo that Dan at the eight hour meeting of 1886.Lorin recited some of the things President John Taylor there taught, what was said against the proposed Manifesto, that he would rather have his hand severed from his body and his tongue torn from the roots of his mouth than either sign or sanetion that doeument; and that while saying it, he was olevated from tho rloor by the things by this living witness (pointing to Dan) who was there".At this John Y. jumped to his feet, and said, "You never in your lire told me you had seen the Prophet Joseph Smith" Dan said, "rhere are a lot of things I have lert ror Lorin to toll you"After this meeting was over Hiekman expressed great amazement and astonishment at what he was there told. Before he left,Lorin forbid him to go to the Chureh authorities and tell what he'was there told. After he left thas meeting, Lorin prophesied to the rest of us remaining, that Hiekman would betray his eonfidence and thing, going to, and telling all to the Chureh authorities. During the spring, I can't remember whether it was in early Mareh, Ig23,or not,but one night while we were staying at Israelis house boarding, my brother Joe and Fred Yates, Lorin and myselr, sat down and talked. We started about p.m. in the evening and it continued on through until seven the next morning. During that night Lorin revealed a great many

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Pa.ge5 things to us three that we had never heard of before. Some of them he had told me of beforo, but many of thom I had never hoard of. As the night went on Fred and Joe got extre mely sleepy, and about 3 a.m. each one slopt for & few minutes off and on--maybe about 2o minutes at a time. I did not get sleepy at all and Lorin and I talked all the night through. When the brethern would wake up, Lorin would go on telling thom more. My brother Joe was so taken up with what he was told, or would find out,that for years arterwards he would talk about it to me when we were together. Fred Yates never remained true blue to what he was told. He marvoled at somo things, but as time went on he ldcked over the traees. When Fred died, yoars afterwards, Lorin said, two or four days after his death, "well I think Fred has found out some things now and kmows more than he erer dreamed whilo alive", Lorin told twelve of us, Fred would not stay put. That night, he told us of the apostaey whieh was coming over the Chureh; about the ehanges that would take place, or would be made by the leaders, and predieted that something vory unusual would happen in the spring about April conrerenoe time. He said, "I am not permitted to reveal to you what it will be, but wateh, for it will shake the Chureh to its foundation. I will tell you later what I make reference to now". It was in rererenee to the ehange of the garments. He said, "some or the members of the Church would apostatize over it and the leaders of the Chureh would give sanetion to it". That night he told us about the trouble President Taylor had, of the threats made against his lire, and deelared he would never be taken alive by onemies and placed in prison. That night he told us what the Centerville, and that President Taylor had predicted,"one half of this Chureh would apostatize over the prineiple for whieh ho was then in hiding,yea and one half of the last half will go." Also, that later President Josoph F. Smith had prophesiod that "ono half of that haif would go".Lorin made the statement to me later, nThe Master had told him (President Taylor)

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P&ge6 the Melchisedeck priesthood that would prove true to the cause, and he didnt kmow whether he eould find enough men to fill the vaceneies in the offiees of the Church to set it in order". Lorin told my brother Joe,after this interview, that his wife Martha was an own sister to his (Lorin's) mother. This was in referenee ence to the Apostaey of the Church and its being set in order. Lorin was selected when a young man to Join the secret serviee or the United states, and became before his death, one of the greatest mortal deteetives in modern times. He told me while worklng for him and living with him, orf many dangerous exploits he had; and after telling me some of them, forbid me to repeat them to others. I lived with him and his father for over ten years in their homes I became very intimately aequainted with them and was trusted with many of their eonfidenees. I stayed at the Baldwin Radio Plant for three years. I worked under and New York while he was at the Baldwin plant. He prevented some of Baldwin's pretended friends from selling him out in their underhanded way. If it had not been for Lorin's shrewd deteetive work, Baldwin would have been sold out underhandedly by those who pretended to be his friends long before he was ruined. I heard Lorin myselr warm and forbid Nathaniel Baldwin to sign contraets with certain men, and he gare their names, and said: "if abide by the decision and advice he got from Lorin and signed the contraets whieh later resulted in his ruin financially. Baldwin was made the catspaw for certain religious and influential men in the Church, Mormon Chureh, and the result of listening to them he was finally sent to the Federal Penitentiary at MeNeil Island, for what he never deserved. The leaders of the Mormon Church sent spies to the Baldwin Plant. Lorin de-

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Page7 tected them and lmew why they were there. At one time a private meeting was held, I am not sure whether it was held on 33rd south and close to personally with certain men. They were crooks, men of questionable characte Lorin lmew the meeting would be held and sent a man there to listen to what was said and decided on. He was an intimate friend of Lorin, and was sent to get the &at goods. President Grant told them in that meetin& to get Baldwin and he didn't care how,but to get him.That is exaetly what was later done. In this meeting was Ralph Seeley, Johny Stillman, Worley Pack and Heber J. Grant. Lorin never told me who his man was, but there,at that place, arrangements were made to put the firm into bankruptsy and recievership. Baldwin's salary at that time was 50,oo0 a year. He employforhim. We met many times in Earnest Woolley's ofrice, too, in the Judge building. There, too, Lorin used to discuss many things with us and tell of things that would transpire in the Church. When Earnest Woolley finally moved his offiees, then we met in Joseph W.Musserls offiees across the in the oil business. Here we were also informed concerning many things that were going to transpire in the future. I was'chosen to be one of Leslie Broadbentis witnesses at the time when he was excommunicated from the Church, and I am an eye witness to the vlolation of some saered promises made in that trial. I went berore a notary Publie and signed an affidavit with another witness what we saw and what took place at that trial. LorinIs Exeommunication. When was Lorin exeommumicated? It must have been in 1924-5.I canit sayjust when,but it took place out in Davis County. Talmage was there. They used Nathan Baldwin,

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Page8 a halr wit, ror testimony against Lorin. Talmage was the big toad in the puddle. In the exeommunieation of Lorin and Leslie the Mormon Chureh took an extre mely dangerous step that cost them plenty. One night arter Lorin's excommunieation he was laying down to sleep on a cot in Baldwin's offieo. how he stood before him,and ir he had been justified in the course he raised him with the eot on which he was lying nearly up to the ceiling. Lorin spoke and said,"That will do Lord,that will do* .Iamsatisried. He said to me,at another time, "You can call it a vision. I am going to be a door keeper. I saw my raths father above me keeping another door. door where he had been and kept. Father eontinued to do this until he got had,he with other men were ztettg present in a lower room,possibly a ground floor room. All the Apostles of the Mormon Church, then at the head or the ehuroh, were there exeept Talmage. He was absent. He was sent to deliver a message to them. Lorin and his ather gave me to understand Stephen L.Riehards was one or the wickedest men in the Mormon Chureh. Sam Douse told me, Stephen L. was as dishonest and crooked as they made them. And that he (Douse, who was a secret serviee man) and other real quorum of twelve.Lorin told me he was sent to deliver a message to the Twelve and he delivered it. I canit remember all the details of what he told them, but Lorin told me of them, and I have sinee forgotten. At times those things eome baek to me for I was told I would forget them and then

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Page9 Lorin told myself, with others, we were to be witnesses. He also tola us, "if the people of the Mormon Chureh kmew some or the things President Grant was guilty of,there are men in high positions of that Chureh that would lill him. But they are not to kmow it. We were not told all that President Grant had done. Tell me something of what they told you in conneetion with outlaws? "Lorin's father was an expert revolver shot. In faat there was no one in the west kmown that eould egual·him with a six-shooterin either hand. When Johnston's army eame into the valley there was an orfieer in the army who was a ehapion shot and boasted of his ability. John W. and he had a shooting mateh. He put him to shame; he was ashamed he had entered the mateh. Lorin earried two pearl handled revolvers when ho went out on dangerous errands. He has used them on more than one ooeasion. Lorin and his rather,too, promised me one of their books, but his boys would not let me have them. Lorin said,lI never can be President of the temple",but his I father ministered in it.Lorin took the plaee or Porter Roekwell at the time or his death. Grandpa told ne,"oseph Smith sealed all or his (Porteris) his wives to him before/isi death at Carthage, and told him, as long as he would never eut his hair his enemies should never prevail over him'? He went to California, and while there, got in with a wieked woman who out his hair. He drank nearly all his life. He used to come to the home of granpa Woolley! he had large bones and oould run like & dog. When Port (Porter Roekwell) usod to come to see grandpa,he would say, loh Johny I love you; Oh I love you (as they griped eaeh other). They both had large heavt beards. They would get ahold of each others beards and pull them until tears would eome running out of their eyes. Then theywould say,lets quit.He was true blue to Joseph the prophet. Porter had a voice like a young boy.He had some or send him on some or his exploits and dangerous nissilons. Porter was sent

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Page I0' many times arter enenies and criminals, and many of them who started for California were brought back by hin for he overtook them. I think he had soven wives. John W. Woolley was an orrieer of the law.He told me of a trip ho took into Utah eounty to overtake two of the worst outlaws lmown to the vest.He rodo his saddle horso. On his way there he met them eoaing north. Thoy stopped him asking where he was going. He told them; he kmew then,but they Capparontly did not kmow hin.They lert oaoh other, and he said as they lert, he felt the ehills running up and down his baek for he did not kmow any man whon he was sent for in a saloon behind the bars. They met and he told him he had a warrent for his arrest .The warrent was shown and was then torn out of his hands. In a moment up went the guns and the eriminal was told to return it or he would ldll him right in his traoks.He believed him, too, when he told hin that. The people used to eall John W. and Lorin C. Woolley, Danites. End offirstintorview Thursday,Mareh5,1942. I worked about three years at the Baldwin Radio Plant, then I was asked to eome and work at Lorin's farm in Centerville, Utah. I there became intimately aequainted with his father, John W.Woolley, while working there as they lived elose to eaeh other.I was at Lorin's and his father's home all during the time of the latters life, and for two years after he died. Lorin had charge of the whole farn, this ineluded his fatherls land too. His father being old Lorin took eharge of it all.I lived with John W. Woolley one and one half years, and arter his death I lived in John's home right olose to boarded two years running the farm. I first stayed at Lorin's houso and neeiai there until Sarah Ann eonplained about having to feed me, and when Lorin's father got to hear about it,he told his son to send me over to his home.I

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Page II went and stayed there for the time I stated, and that was how I came to go In'addition they had about Iooo aores down near the Salt Lake on which cattle werekept during the summer months. Lorin told me "i would not be surprized if you lived to see a forest of oil weils spring up around Hunter, South or Salt Air,to the East and north of the Lake. I never asked him, nor his rather,but I heard then say a eity was buried in the Salt Lake, northwest of Salt Lake City, in the neighborhood of Cud ahays. Jaekson County. and we would.be there months berore we would even be missed here at home. He told me we would go baek there in truoksj that we would have gas made out or water and ehemieals, and would not have to buy it as we now do.The eapgoing. I was told men would be selected and called by revelation to go back there ahd build up that eity. I understood fronm the mouths or the prophets that then men would be put to do work at the things they like to do, and that when they did their work, they would do it well. They told me men would be made stewards over their work and would be sustained while they were getting not make good, they would be roplaced by others,and men would be plaeed wher thoyeould workright. The Earth. I was told this earth was only one fifth the size now that it used to be. I was told I would never deny the things I was told were true. Some portions or this earth are of a terrestrial order and thoy have gone together. The term, IThe seventh heaveni has a nmeaning. I understood iother Eve was an

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PagoIa orfiee, and that Eve was not the only one woman Father Adam brought here with him. Eve was not the mother or the royal ramily, as some reneg ades eame through another ehannel. Lorin told me Riehard Jessop was the deepest thinkFanily. He said'there are two women I could say anything I wanted to and ask them never to divulge it, and they would keep the seeret. Thoso women he said,were my wife Elva and Rieh's wife (Riehard Jessop) Ida. Lorin taught priesthood line with me on down from the days of Father hdam until now and not the first born sons. He told me it is always the seeond,third or fourth son, or the youngest son that proves to be the best.Lorin said, iI am not the oldest in my fathorls family Grandpa used to have a heavy voieo and would say, lfoh my boy, Oh my boy, it is good to kmow some things others guess atil. Lorin told me, pledging me to seerecy, ir the people around Centerville, Utah, knew what he and his father had out there, they would dig up the whole land and get ahold of it. Lorin was unable to place trust in his wife, Sarah Ann, or eonfide in her, beeause she would diselose what he told her.Lorin's father told me she would betray eonfidenee. She would ask for the impossible at times and Lorin would have to tell her,lI eanit do that; I canit give you that, you ask the impossiblell. The Grand Couneil. Grandpa never did tell me about Theodore Roosevelt, although he lmew that I new about him. It was Lorin that told me about him.-Theodore belonged to the Grand Couneil. He reeiered his endowmonts under the hands of Grandpa Woolley and Joseph F. Smith in the Blaek Hills of Wyoning. He was eonverted to the gospel by Ben E. Rieh. Teddy made more than one trip to Utah, unkmom to the nation.I shook hands with Teddy in Salt Lake City in June,1903,I

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Page12. were very intimate friends. My understanding is that it was in the Blaek Hills where they also gave hin his endowments and priesthood. He first was a member of that body. of the Grand Couneil. It was Lorin who told me. He was one of the most quiet men of the world. He was one of the honorable men of the world first, then went upward in the Council. I was told,nWateh when a Lamanite sits in the ehair at Washington: wateh for that". It may be this will eome about through our present President Franklin D. Roosevelt, being killed. I was told, "Some times the Grand Couneil meetings are held on mountain tops, in valloys, and right close to where you are right now. I asked Lorin if he had ever seen Father Adan in a Grand Couneil meeting? he said,No, I never saw him in one of those meetings. I coneluded he had seen him otherwise. I was told,nYou are standing on some very saored ground right now', about that time a Grand Couneil meetin was held at grandpais farm. Concerning the Manifesto. President Woodruff recieved Ioo's and Iooo's of letters demanding he aceeed to the wishes of the government authorities and appease the people. for was threatened, both by the Gentiles and prominent Mormons in the Chureh. He was told if he did'nt do something they would ldil him. He left for a time hoping the trouble would die dowm. He left seeretly with two or three men, not even his family kmew where he was.He went among the sheep herders in Sunset, Arizona. I understood he spent some three weeks there. While there he recieved a revelation fron the Savior himself battles. He was told to not heed the olamorings of the people. When he came

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PageI4 baek pressure was put upon him whieh became exeeedingly great, and he submitted to the elamor of the people in the Chureh, and, outside of it. The Manifesto was drom up by some seven men, and ehanged by them, some of the signattre. That is the Manifesto as we have it now. President Woodruff wrote nothing in it, all he did was attaeh his nameto it.Inside of 2y hours,or less, from the time he signed it, keys and other saored things whieh had been ontrusted to him, were taken from him.I have understood he never after ever met with the Grand Couneil, of whieh he was a member. I may be wrong in my understanding of that, however. I learnedthe Savior appeared to Woodruff after he signed that Doounent, saying, iwhat you have done, you have done, let the Saints of my Chureh obey my law. President George Q. Cannon was one of the main men who helped to push and get a sanetion of the Manifesto with the Chureh. President Lorenzo Snow also asked for it and gave it his sanotion. He (Cannon) was rinally recieved and aeeepted as the fourth menber of the Sanhedrin, but was always Jealous of his position, because Lorin was ahead or him in that body. Grandpa told me George Q. Cannon was always jealous of his son because he was over him. Sealings Performed. sealed Grandpa Woolley/a women to President Joseph F. Smith in plural marriage Franeis M.Lyman was then President of the Twelve.He,with Heber J. Grant, one of the Twelve, deeided President Sith should be eut off the Chureh for violating the law of the land and the Chureh. Franois M. made a trip up to Centerville to see Grandpa about it. He called up (over the telephone) previously making an appointment for the visit. Grandpa told him to eome, and he did. When he got there Lorin was in the house talkdng to,rather. When Lyman entered he was told to take a seat. He told grandpa he wanted to talk alone with him. Lorin never offered to go from the room. Franeis M repeated

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P&geI5 his request the seeond time he wanted to seo him alone. John W. then told him,liYou can talk to me and what you have to say in the presence of my boy here, it wont make any differenceu. Franeio M. then hesitated talldng. I was told, John W. Left the room for a few moments, and while away,he leaned over close to Lorin sticking his finger up to his face and said:I and swore at Francis M. calling hin some awful names, among them,nDamn you, you pot-gutted son-of a biteh, you send my father to prison for one on you. Did'nt I cateh you in Idaho, on a certain day and night, with a prison and Iill send you a year for every day you send my fatherll,I was told Francis M. reared baekward and turned pale, saying, "Lorin, Lorin, what are you talling about? li am talking racts and I have the proor". mand John W. Woolley. Following that, Heber J. Grant and Franeis M, Lyman got together. Sometime later, President Smith came up and told John W,that Franeis M and Heber were going to eut him off from the Churech. Grandpa said, 'No they wont Joseph. I'll put a spoke in the wheel. They can eut off, but they are not going to out you off. I won't stand for that'r. They finally cut John W. off the Chureh, but threatened to ldll Joseph F.if he did not denounce plural marriage before the publie. I have understood,fram the mouths of these prophets, that Joseph F. would conform to the counsels, they (Members in the Presiding High Priesthood body ahead of him) would give recieved by President Smith, it so worked on him that he cried over it. He President Smith walking the floor in his room. He told Lorin what was mapped out for him to do, then asked Lorin to go right back and tell his father what he had told xia him, and that they two should talk the matter over.

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PageI6 Lorin said, wUncle Joseph, if you do that, you will never live to make another statement in mortal lirel.llI ean't help it Lorin, I have got to go used almost the identieal words Lorin used to President Smith. After listening to it his father daid,nHe'll never live to make another statement in the tabernaele, if he does that". Lorin said, "That is exaetly what I told hil Lorin and his father then went to Salt Lake. President Smith was reported never went to bed one minute from siekmess. In one of the issues of the Deseret News telling about his condition, President Smith,John W. and Lorin were sitting in & big sedan with the doors elosed on the street in front of the Deseret News offiee reading how siek President Smith was and in bed at the time. They drove from there to the Smith dairy farn in Holliday, and in dent Smith was asked why he was going to make a publie statement against plural marriage, he said, lTo keep Heber J. and Franeis M. from dipping their hands in my blood". Ee (John W.) inquired of the Lord eoncerming the matter and recieved the answer, Let him make the statement; let them have what they want,and for him (Joseph F.) to come on over to the other side". It worked out that way fulfilling what the Prophet Joseph Smith had said to Joseph F.: You've come a little late, but you have come absolutely clean. Fresident Joseph F. Smith made the statement that they,(Erancis M. and Heber J. and others) required. This was the staterent against plural marriage that was made in the tabernacle before the Saints at the conference before his death. Arter it was made he was dead in three weeks. He sweat blood before he diod. to bring the keys to the Presidency of the Church over with him when he came, but that keys to the Patriarchal order, and keys to the ldngdom,were to re-

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PageI7 main here with the men on earth who held them. Grandpa told me, WIf there was a son of perdition in this dispensation, remember I said, IF, Amasa Lyman was one. He was the father of Franeis MLyman.

GOLD

I was told by the prophets this country here was Pull of gold from up until the time eame ror it to be taken out, and that in the meantime,only enough would be found to go forth necessary for comereial purposes. Both or them told me, I No money that had been dug from the earth and was tainted by the hands of the wieked would be used to build up Jackson County, but that new gold, and other money, would be max dug out for that purpose.The old was blood money and could not be used for that purpose". ComingEvents. I was told that the government of the United States would fall into the hands of the priesthood through revolution. When the wars of Europe and the Pacifie have devastated the lands and weakened their eountries and people and our own eountry was beset by internal troubles, then,would be the time, foreign nations would rigure the United states were so weak, she eould not that time when the Priesthood will take a hand in it, and an army would be raised by the priesthood of God and stepforth and destroy the invaders. I also understand that the Indian people are going to play an outstanding roll in the eoming war. The Indians will become converted by the thousands, and tens of thousands, to the gospel. As soon as they learn who like so many insects. They will fight for the establishment or freedom for the Western Hemisphere. When Lorin told me all about THE RECoRDS, THE SWoRD

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Page18 OF LABON,THE URIM AND THUMMIM, which are all spoken of with eertain words for a purpose, he then described that sword to me. This sword has been in existence almost since time began. Its length and the quality of the steel wiekds that sword. There will be a Lamanite who will be a giant in stature who will go forth and mow them down like weeds and no modern gun will stop him,Those are the words he used to me. Lorin told me that the rocks whieh would be used to buiid the temple at Missouri would come outofoklahoma.Itis & rock that is so softit ean be eut with a saw, and that arter exposed, would become harder and harder with time. I heard that stones had already been cut out and numbered for some preliminary work. I've heard that.

THE LEEIS FERRY AND SHORT CREEK COUNTRY

Savior made his visit to the Nephites upon this continent. It was in that seetion he told me,llother sheep I have whieh are not of this fold".I don't mow for sure, but I think, that the exact spot where the Savior met the Nephites and taught them was at the present site now at Short Creek, Arizona I understand that that is to be one or the center spots on this hemisphere. Young to dedieate that ground.

WHAT HE WAS TOLD ABOUT PRESIDENT

BRIGHAMYOUNG

The Lord told President Youne not to commercialize this ehureh. You mst not do it. A man well kmown, and one elosely aequainted and assoeiated with President Young, who held possession of eonsiderable property, offered Order.He also offered to put all of his means in..He said to President Young,llI'm ready when you are'. President Young, said:llIf any man can make

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Page I9 more money out of my money than I can, I am ready, but not before,I understood the man who offered his all was disappointed in his attitude and reply. When in after years President Young made a money-making scheme out of the Z.C.M.I., and other interests belonging to the Church, the Lord removed him. But before he did it, he was told by the Lord not to do it.

POSITIONS TO BE HELD IN THE

PRIESTHOOD

I was told, President John Taylor would stand next to Joseph Smith in the Presideney of the Church the Prophet,/and that President Joseph F. Smith would stand in the Presideney arnd nezt to him. Lorin gave me to understand some of those matters,at the same time, he tried not to be too plain. Grandpa told me, (he doubted if Heber J. Grant would ever see his fatheris facen. And he said,I tell you, Jedediah was a mighty good man". I was told that theProphet Joseph Smith came to the Rocky Mountains way they should go; that he was always close around the Saints. He never laid in his grave long. Grandpa told me, fiHe is always close &round herell. Lorin told me he led and directed the pioneers here. End of thesecond days inrormation. Third Interview. Mareh 12,1942. "I was told that men who neglect their wives, or who show partiality to one wife against another, or who abuse them, sueh as whip their wives, reetion. Men who are cruel to their wives and children, who desert them, who leave the older ones for younger, would loose them. Such are not abiding in the covenent.

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Pago20 Lorin told me, or gave me to understand, it was the woman who should say when she desired sexual life, and not the man. He should stay long after a ehild is born should a man wait before sexual intercourse takes place again? He told me this,"If a wife is pregnant and desires it, for there are times when pregnant women crave sexual life more then than when they are not pregnant, they should be satisried: I told him that I never touch my wife while she was pregnant and when nursing her children. That is the celestial order, when fully carried out. I was also told that a man is under a great responsibility, if a woman comes and asks him to go into his family, if he refuses to let her eome into it.

PRESIDENT GRANTIS MARRIAGE AFTER THE

MANIFESTO.

was recieved that Heber J. Grant was going to California, on a certain day. Ome, W.C. Spense, was trafie dispatcher of the trian that took him. He told Lorin that Heber's train would leave at a certain time, the traek it was on, name or the engineer and conductor. Lorin appointed a seeret service man to go and board that train unbeknown to President Grant. He rode into California along with Heber. At the same time, Lorin wired his special detective in California that President Grant was coming, the train on which he left, the hour, engine number, engineer,conductors, ete. The time it would arrive in Los Angeles and on what traek.He told him to keep Heber J. Grant under constant surviliance from the moment he leaves that train until he was notiried otherwise. He was never to let him get from under his observation at any time while on the eoast. That was done. On arriving in Los Angeles Heber J. Grant entered a certain hotel at 7 p.m.in the evening with a eertain lady

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Page21l they all went to President Grant's hotel.The room into which they went was given, and in that room he was married to Lucile Woolley. This was in the lights went out at eleven o'eloek, and together they two eame out in the morning at 7:3o a.m. I was told detectives steped up to President Grant and plaoed him under arrest. (Then something took place I have never understood, President Grant asked for a lawyer. He was given time to straighten out affairs to the satisfaction of the officers and the law,whieh cost the She is a eousin to Lorin. Lorin told me she had four little girls by Heber before Ig2.I think he married her about the year I9I4. Lorin told me, he had been instructed,never to let Heber J. Grant get out of his immediate reaeh. Tony Ivins smarried them. Here is another thing,Arnold,I don't understand. Tony was given a speeial commission to seal women to men in Mexieo only. I never understood he had ever been given any right to seal outside .of that eountry. He performed that sealing in the United States and, Lorin told me,HE WAS NOT MARRIED. The whole story as I was told it was arranged to be printed in the press, but the papers that were to earry it with the information given,was bought up. What do you kmow concerning John W. Woolley's work in the Salt Lake temple?About his exeommunieation? I kmow that John W. Woolley did ordinance work in the Salt Lake temple. Any man that has shed blood eannot be president of any temple. Lorin told me he never could hold that position. I can't tell you jf John W. ever was president of that terple or not. He did tell me, however, that it was in the Salt Lake temple that he met his wife Annie. I kmow thatHeber J. Grant and Franeis M.Lyman wanted to exeommnieate Joseph F. Smith for taking a plural wire after the Manifesto. They

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Page22 had the information on that. Franeis M. Lyman wanted to become the Presiwould beeome President of the Chureh. When pressure was being brought against President Smith he went to see John W. Woolley, and,he said, "oh no Joseph,they won't cut you off; they can cut me off, but they won't cut year he left the temple. When I first met brother John W. he was not working in the Salt Lake Temple. It was John W. Woolley who performed the marriage forJoseph F. in the different stakes of Zion? nI was told every stake from Canada to Mexieo had at least one man set apart to perform plural marriages outside of the temples. President Taylor, I was told, went himself and attended to that when he could before his death. Both John W. and Lorin told me, IEefore President Taylor went into hiding men were set apart to keep that principle alive'," What did they tell you about Mohandas K. Gandhi? "I think it was in 1927, Lorin told me about him. It may have been later, Ig28. Lorin told me never to say anything against that man. He turned to me and said,Rone, I tell you, Mohandas K. Gandhi is a prophet of God. Don't you never say anything against hin. I am personally aequainted with hin The world'does not kmow he is a prophet of God, and that isnit all,there is one righteous man in every eivilized nation on this earth. If that was not true, the Lord would immediately destroy that nation. And in some natevery nation and denomination are not righteous men! Did either John W. or Lorin tell you anything about W.E. Gladstone? "Neither John nor Lorin ever told me anything about Gladstone being Q member of the Grand Council. Lorin gave me the names of some seven and where they lived,men that were members of that Council, but was told to

Page 24

p&ge23 say nothing about them. I was told I would forget them. The quorum of the Grand Council was filled up at one time while I was living with them, but before the death of both of them, it had beeome incomplete through the death of Several embers. I WAS TOLD IT WOULD NOT BE FILLED UP UNTIL THE TIME WHEN THINGS WOULD BE SET IN ORDER." What was you told about Reed Smoot? "Lorin was sent at one time to deliver a special message to the general authorities, the Twelve and First Presidency. All were present in the temple room except James E. Talmage, who was then in Europe.He was sent to tell them what they must do, and what was required of them. In that meeting surprized. He said to Lorin, 'what do you mean?i Lorin said, "I mean just what I say. In order to be like the world and to be popular with the outsiders and big Gontiles,you discarded your garments". In that meeting,he turned to Melvin J. Ballard and daid, IMelvin, you never take that chance. It was at that meeting that Richard R. Lyman asked Lorin, Ijust who are you anyway?i Lorin replied, Just Lorin C. Woolley to you and as far as you are eoncerned. He delivered his message to them and, after he left them, one of the Apostles, an intimate friend of his and brother in the priesthood told him (Lorin) afterwards,'Riehard R. Lyman got up in that meeting, and said,ioh Lord,if we could only get him on some pretext, but we don't seem to be able to have any goods on him'.They trailed Lorin afterwards at night to put him under surviliance. Many a time he eluded their traps and secret trailers.After he could stand it no longer, he went to them,he had stood it long enough and as far as he was going to. I underhim lif he ever trailed him any further (at the same time raising his coat

Page 25

Page24 and exposing the pearl handle of his pocket gun or revolver) or any one else,he would make him shit his pants. He was releaved eonsiderably for they took him at his word and called the dogs off. What did he say about the present Apostles? Did he say any would prove faithful? And, would others,take their places? He told me there was none of the present authorities in the Chureh, the First Presideney or Twelve, that he had the least bit of conridence in. II would not trust a single one or them'. Lorin told me, Heber J.kmew that he (Lorin).had been ordained an Apostle long before he was, as Heber had asked him when he was ordained.He was told it was in Mareh, I87o, twelve years ahead or Grant. Lorin told me,there were several Apostles ordained ahead of eber J. Grant.J.Golden Kimball being one of them.He was so ordained by his father Heber C. Kimball.LORIN TOLD ME THERE WERE FOUR QUORUMS OF APOSTLES BESIDES THE QUORUM OF TWELVE THB CHURCH KNEW ABOUT.EVERY MAN IN THE times when the Savior met with the Grand Couneil and the Honorable men of the met with the Master; that he was there at that meeting and took charge himSII. LORIN TOLD ME ALL THE OLD TVWELVE WOULD HAVE TO BE KICKED OUT AND A NEWhave forfeited their right to stay there. What did they tell you about Tony Ivins? "John W. told me that Tony Ivins had been led into many of the inside workings of the priesthood; he kmew what the people were doing, and what was required to be done, but that he had failed. He said, Ihe has pissed backwards like a sow-pig". Tony Ivins, I was told, would wake up of marriage when ordained and set apart to perform plural sealingsin Mexieo but had broken his covenant--having never obeyed that law. Grandpa told me Tony was hob-nobbing with the outside world. He told me,I would live to see

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Page25 a lot of changes. I have lived to see a lot of them now. Lorin and his father John were awful closed mouthed men, but whenever they told you something, it would stick in your bones. John W. told GET ITi.I told him,I believed it. He told me,IYOU WILL LIVE To SEE THE PROPHET JOSEPH,YOU WILL LIVE TO SEE HIM'," What was you told about the whoredomof Franeis M. Lyman? lap. He had been drinking liquor,too. Later,when Lyman said,he was going to send his father to the penitentiary, Lorin told me he called him a God damed aa son of a biteh. Lorin told me some of the things he caught him doing from time to time, the places where, and when. Lorin also caught James E.Talmage in New York on his return from his mission in Europe with two whores on his lap drnk. John W. also told me that the papers whieh Talmage used to get into the scholarship order of the wisest men of the world were stolem by him, and were not his own. Grandpa also told me, 'You will have to go a long way to find a meaner man than Robinson,(then a told me Stephen L. Riehards was one of the most wieked men in the Mormon Church.n What did grandpa or Lorin tell you about there having the records, Urim and Thummim, Seer Stone, etc., Sword or Labon, the Ball or Compus of things Lehi, and other saered Riwni? "Lorin and his father had possession of the Gold Plates, the sealed part of the gold plates which Joseph the prophet had in his hands, the Urim and Thummim, Sword of Laban,Ball of Lehi, Seer Stone,and other sacred records. They were forbidden to show them because of the wiekednesso men. I never saw them, but they admitted to me they had them. They told me farm to try and get themi"

Page 27

0age26 What did grandpa or Lorin say about prehistorie Utah? southern Utah, Arizona and New Mexieo. There are some very sacred spots in thbse places and in this land here". Did they tell you.about any buried cities near here? "I was told about a buried city east of here and of another northwest or here". Tell me what you was first told about tho calling of John I. Barlow and Leslie Broadbent? "It was in the year of 1927, in the fall; I think it was, in a eonversation with grandpa Woolley about the Saints going baek to Jackson eounty it came up. He told me they had already started selecting some or chosen, but have not been notified. He said, iAnd you lmow who some of them are. He motioned his hand towards John Y.who was working over the fence. And he said, IOne was here last nighti. That one was Joseph Leslie Broadbent. iBut', he said,putting his finger to his lips,.lThey have not been notiried yetr". BrotherMoroni Jessop then told me,he wanted to tell me something, saying, "one time when we were working out at Baldwin's Plant, we were walldng along the street. John Y. and Leslie were with me, and as we walked along the street I prophesied to them, the day would come when they would yet be called and chosen Apostles of the Lord Jesus Christ. Since then, they have been ordained". Moroni also said, "eleven years ago on the 2nd of February,1929, Lorin took Morris Kunz, myself, Jack Allred and Lyman Jessop and ordained us to the priesthood. Rhea Kunz, Morris's wife, saw the ordination of all. It took place in Morriss home. He was then living in a house right north of the Fair Grounds. He ordained Morris first,Jack and me next and

Page 28

Page27 Lyman last. When he was ready for me he turned and said, iRone, I believe you have the priesthood, but I am going to give it to you again, and then I kmow you will have it'.I don't remember just the words he used but he used words a little different with me than he did with the others. About two years ago Rhea said to Lyman, when talking about that event, II can't forget what he said to Rone, and ean't get it off my mina".Lyman said, Imaybe I don't get what you mean'. Rhea then said, iLorin said have got, you laek nothing'.I didn't remember about that until Lyman first that'.Lorin was asked the following day or two in the presence of two or three of us, (we were not all there), Morris asked it, "Uncle Lorin, why didn't you give us an offiee in the priesthood?" He turned and looked at the three or us. and said, "i ordained you just oxaetly as the Lord wanted me to. You are not curtailed in any offiee; you have the priesthood without limit". Moroni Jessop then said to me,(the compiler of this doeunent,)"That I was with Lorin alone,he said, iRone,if you are ealled on to aet in any or the Wards under the jurisdietion of the Chureh leaders, act in the capaeity or a Seventy, the orfiee you have had berore. Outside or their Jurisdietion you are not curtailed in any offiee.Mou have the priesthood without limitations" and he turned around and started to walk off.I was lert to think, and I don't kmow yet what he meant". Tell me what you heard them say about the United States flag? And about the flag of the Kingdomof God? "our rlag, I was told, was inspired, and I understand some of the same colors of it will be used in the rlag of the kingdom or God". "what did they tell you about the dowmfall of this nation? "i was told that for several years past in Lower California and Mexiec the Japs had prop erty, and had secured bases, and had laid away material for war upon us. I was told the Pacifie coast would be thefirst

Page 29

Page28 I was told for years by grandpa and Lorin, 'ir they had the best home given to them they would not live there'. They told me the time would come when there would be a lot of trouble there. When President John Taylor prophesied eoneerning the first war, now some twenty three years ago,and came a lull for several years He said, iThat war would be followed by and it will involve all nations.But there will be a lull for a short time in this war for all to go together and gather up more arms and equipment. They told me this war would be finished by airplanes and horses. That the airplanes would devastate and destroy eities and villages, and highways, and that the time would eome when it would be almost impossible to transor port men or material over railroads, publie highways, any great distance at all. That airplanes would fly with war materials, and these would transport men and other things needed, and horses would be used to pass where in the earth, secreey would be kept eoncerning them, and this, that the enemy would not be able to destroy them. Lorin told me,there were plaees publie kmows nothing about. I was told this years ago. I WAs ToLD THE PACIFIC COAST WOULD BE CLEANED UP BUT THAT THE ENEMY WOULD GO NO FURTHER BECAUSE OF THE RESISTANCE THAT WOULD COME FROM THE INWARD COUNTRY. Lorin told me that eonditions would get so bad right here in this eity, great trouble would eome here in Salt Lake City, Judgments would take plaee, stores would be forsaken and that people could go and help

Page 30

Bago29 never be driven out or here. Other multitudes would eome in here fron the nation. I am looking for England, Franee and the European countries yet tb eome over here and clean up and help, (or hope) to take over this eountry. the people,against the invaders and will over aome them. I was never told invasion who would lnvade us on the oast, but I was told that the easterrawould and kill." Did they evertell you there were more translated persons than the three Nephites? of Tibet, this continent. John the revelator's main mission is to the Ten Tribes, and also,to Europe. The ten Tribes will eome to this eountry and help to save it, too". Did Lorin tell you where the Ten Tribes were? "He told me they were on a detaehed portion of this planet.I was told this earth, originall, wasmade up of seven parts and,that the organizers of this planet took the best portions or sevenrplanets the people of whom never lived the law of eternal increase,and were disorganized. The best portions of those seven planets were brought together, and, our earth was organized from them. I have understood, and it was also strongly inf erred to me, that all or these portions or the disorganized planets were not of the same qualitj, and still.are not.That is why that when this dismemberedfrom itare planet and the portions A again to be annexed to it in the futuro,(whieh celestial. The reason is, the people living on the various portions have

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Page30 never lived the fullness or the gospel as did some or the others.I understand,the portion we live on,has lived and is abiding the eelestial law. The other divisions will become teiestial and terrestrial. Lorin told me when he was alive,Ithis earth had not then quite gone to the bottom yet, it had a little further to go, then,it would start to go baek! his I have understood it reaehed the bottom about the time of sia death and world would become a Urim & Thummim to all who would go into the eelestial kingdom, but not to any of the other elasses. The telestial people Can't go into the Terrestrial, nor ean the Terrestrial go into the Celestial. But, celestial beings ean go into either of the lower glories. Lorin gave me to understand that the influenoe on the ehild by the mother is ninety per eent greater than that of the father; and,it was up beginning) the year it took this earth in making its revolution around bered from it sinee then and must be returned to it again. It now takes for the earth End ofthird interview Sunday,April I9,1942. Day of last interview. Tell your experience at Independence, Missouri, and what Lorin told you some years after eoming from your European mission? "when Icame home from my mission in England in the fall of I9o2 I arrived at Salt Lake City on the I7th of Oetober. It must have been near

Page 32

Page31 sionaries returned from Europe that fall. We decided to visit at Independence, Missouri, before we went home. We had arrived at Kansas City seven or eight or us went. We all went and looked around the oid Liberty Jail, then went to the temple lot. I had been sea siek crossing the ocean and was then still not well. After walking around for a few hours I became weary and tired. Arter visiting the temple lot they all decided to return to Kansas City and visit more interesting sights there. I said, I am not going right now; I am going to lay down under this tree and rest. One missionary offered to stay with me for fear I would get lost, but I told him I would be able to handle myself.They then all left me and went baek to Kansas City. The day was niee and warm; the sun was shinning, and I and I layed under the tree with my head to the west at the butt or the tree. I looked at the watch as I layed down and fell asleep. When I woke up I had been asleep just three hours, and I ean't say I, ever felt better, felt more revived and stronger. I sat down by the tree, looked around for under. I tried to decide what kind of tree it was,but I could not deleaves and put it into my poeket. The tree was well formed and shaped. Aftrain back to Kansas City. I found my companions at their rooms, and learnei they all had been worrying orer me. They said I looked better, and so I felt. Years later,in the early fall of September or October, 1923, Genevive Jessop, the daughter of my brother Joseph S. Jessop, died.Lorin and a number of men from Salt Lake City went up to Millville to attend

Page 33

Page32 that funoral. Lorin and I stayed at my mother's home all might. During Lot in Jaekson County I slept under.Lorin said to me, iwhat do you kmow about that tree?! I said, I kmow I layed under that tree, my head at the I never felt better in my life. He said, 'Lordie, Lordio, grandma Jessop, that treei. Both mother and I were surprized at the statement he mado. He then told mother something about that tree when I was not in his presence. I don'tknow what it was he told her, but afterwards, he told me several things in relation to that tree. He said,lit stood in the exaet center ofthe temple that was to be built in Jaekson eounty, and asked ir I kmew what kind or tree it was' I told him'I did not kmow'. I gave him a diseription of it as far as I could, when he said,iYes, you have slept under that tree'. He told me he kmew all about that tree and who had planted it, and when it was planted. That four men stood under that tree and had made a eovenant, and he was one of the four; and at the time the small pieces were made, each man taking one, and each one was to keep it as long as he lived.He told me,II am the only one lert of the four that has kept that covenant, and I still have the twig, now nearly forty years WHEN THE LIGHTNING STRIKES THAT TREEI. But I never kmeW what he meant, nor have I ever found out. I do remember him saying, IMen will go there out of euriosity to see that tree, but will not see iti.Frank Pollard it,but eould not." The Sealied Plates. "You have testified that the sealed plates have been translated. What do you eare to say about that?

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Page33 "I asked Lorin the question one day while I was working there at his rarm and living with him and his father at Centerville, (Utah). or will it be after? Lorin said to me, iIt would be translated before the Chureh was set in orderl.His father also told me one day,IThe Records will be translated berfore long'. Some two months passed by, then one day Lorin said, Iwe are already workdng on the translation of the sealed remust have been two or three months, he stepped up to me and said, lRone, they are finished. We have finished the translation of the reeords. The they are waiting for the people. But they are not ready to recieve them'. Lorin never forbid me to tell it,he did not tell me how long to wait, so now I will tell it.Lorin told me this was not kmown by the people,but that Joseph Smith and Moroni dietated the translation. Both John W. and Lorin admittod this to me. Miscellaneous Teachings. I was taught, lI am not to seal my daughter to you, or to any other man, norshould you seal your daughter to me. It was. sealing a daughter out of my line, I was toldi. Did John or Lorin ever tell you who Heber's suceessor in the Presidency would be? "i understand he would bo a man that would be smooth-sh&ven, or one who would have a smooth shaven face" What did they teaeh you concerning Father Adam? nBoth John W.and Lorin C.Woolley told me,that Father Adam was the God of this earth.On several occasions grandpa told me,'oh my boy, Oh my

Page 35

Page34 boy,I would like to tell you certain things, but I ean't, I can't.I expect that I will have to go over to the otherside with my lips sealed! John W. Promised me several times, I would live to see the prophet Joseph I was told, Iwhen you once get the faets about the Garden of Eden, it will be all as elear as mud, Did you ever hear about a eateh eolt?! I said,'yesl.iwell',he said,lthat is the kind of man Cainis.He was a cateh colt.Father Adam was not the father of Caine, the Devil wasl. One I said to Lorin, 'Ican't see whorein I am any relation to that blaek boy. Lorin said,INo,you are not,neither am Il. also dead. The latter also belonged to the Grand Council. Grandpa told me he wanted to stay and see the windup ssene, but didn't get the promise. Beforo that time brother Harrison Sperry was ealled to go on the other side to make a report of eonditions.He went over,but was not fully qualified to give the information that was wanted. A message then eame that was wanted. Some nine days previous to the death of grandpa a meeting was December I3, Iga8, and weuld have been ninety seven years of age that month,had he lived. That special priesthood meeting was held on the 4th of December. Lorin told me all about it.John W. told me a little about it. There were just eight men in that priesthood meetingSix of them were from the other side, two from this side.John W.Woolley and his son Lorin were the only two from this side. The other six were resurreeted beings. They were: Jesus Christ,Joseph Smith, the prophet, his father Joseph Smith,

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Page35 senior,Hyrum Smith,John Taylor and Joseph F.Smith.In conversation I asked Lorin if he would tell me who they were, if I could guess their am not denying it'.Lorin told me the Savior produeed the bread and wine at that supper right before us. He said, iLordie, what wonderfil wine to get ready and to eome over to the other side. He died ten minutes after four o'clock,A.M.December I3, 1928.That was the same minute, the same hour, the same month his own father died." now Did John W. tell what must get out of order that is not,out of order? "I asked him, grandpa told me, putting up hand and three fingers. olusions." Did Lorin ever tell you how many times President Heber J. Grant had been visited and given special warning messages? "I was told, he was visited once while I was with them. He was visite twico, that I kmow of, but in every instance he disobeyed. I was told he Did they tell you the number of worlds rotating around our sun? "No, they never told me anything about the number of worlds rotating around our sun, but I was told, iThis planet would be redeemed as a celestialplanet: Grandpa used to impress upon me, 'Remember this, don't forget it; it must all get out of order. Everything pertaining to the priesthood must get out of order before the House of God can be set in orderl. In the year, Igar, while at grandpa's house,he said to me, IMoroni,

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Page 36 come right in that door'. He repeated that for several days. He said, IMaybe you don't kmow them, maybe you are not aequainted with them'.I visitors must have come. IYEs', he said, ITHEY HAVE CoME. THEY CAME UP THIS LANE AND RIGHT IN THAT DOOR. YES,SIR,THEY HAVE COME'.I S&id, grandpa, will you admit who they were, if I can guess who they were? He smiled for a minute, then said,Alright my bo, go ahead, if you can guess who came, I will admit it'.I guessed the two men who eame into his house. At the time they came into the house I was outside working.I told him I had never seen anybody come in.He said, II kmow you didniti. I He admitted it was right. The way I kmew they had come was this, one day I walked into his room and no sooner entered it than I felt the spirit of the Lord so strong it was almost consuming. I stopped suddenly at the threshold or the door and could hardly more. It was the most glorious feeling I ever experienced, but, at the time,I never said a thing to him about it. Two or three days. passed before I mentioned about the isitors having cone. It was because or the spirit I felt that I knew they had been there. I was told, Joseph the prophet was always around and that overy onee in a while, when necessary,he would come into his home". Rgarding Bonds and Chureh Indebtedness "Grandpa spoke to me about Heber going east to borrow more money, then a few days later, Lorin told me Heber J. was in New York to borrow money. They recieved a telegram from the bank officials that Heber was there to borrow more money, stating the amount, and asked the endorsoment of both John and Lorin whether they should extend it. They replied by telegram, ILet him have what he asked forl. If they had refused, Heber J. would not have recieved one dollar. Little did the President of the Church kmow at that tine who held the strings to stop him. It was helping to fulfiil President John Taylor's predietion, "The Church would go into bondage

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Page37 spiritually and financially". John W. told me the Church was then in dobt over $3o,ooo,ooo. Lorin afterwards told me,they were involved $33,0oo,o0o, but had paid back two millions. Sam Douse told me they still owed $3I,ooo,ooo.I was told, it was the Chase lational Bank they had been doing business with".

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-Page38 The before recorded historical matter and testimony I dietated to Armold Boss at his residence at the time stated, and when he had the and I pronounced it correet. There are other things whieh the Prophets forbid me to disclose and those things are not mentioned.I now subscribe my name to the foregoing in the presence of these witnesses. 29t/942 witnesses P.S. Three copies have been made for preservation.

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rageas The following additional information was dictated by brother Moroni Jessop to me (Arnold Boss) November 29, 1943. Additional statements made by Lorin C. Woolley to Moroni. My Mother. We left Lorin's house to go to grandpa's, walking east out in the field. Lorin while ahead of me. walking, turned around and said; Eilen Shaffer) was as elect lady". I took little notice of it as we the statement grandma Jessop will be an elect lady". We walked on further, and the third time, he said; "Rone Jessop, I dare make the statement, grandma Jessop is an elect lady". About Myself do. I said to him, "The Hell I don't, I'm Just Rone Jessop prowling isn't who you was, nor that isn't who you wiil be", and his own mother were own sisters in the spirit world". How to administer the sacrament and open and close meetings I ask him the right order,He said; "In administering the sacrament raise the arm to the square (right arm),cup the hand with thumb close to the fingers". I inferred from what he said both elders should kneel, and both raise their right hands, but only one of them was to speak. In opening, the elder who prays, "shouldraise his right arm bringing it to a square. The fingers shouid be straight up, thumb straight up with the ringers". He informed me when dedicating a grave, "both hands are to be raised to the square and cupped". He informed me when dismissing a meeting, "one hand or arm should be raised to the square (the right) and in this case the fingers are to be held apart". He said, there are signs and tokens for everything, and if we knew them, everything would be simple" He taught us concerning the signs on the Salt Lake Temple. He promised to tell us more at a later date, but he never lived to do it. He said; "The Lord had never accepted of the temple". The reason was, the priesthood and people had signed and received the Manifesto. At another time he told me, "You don't know who you are, but I do.You and me are own brothers" (Meaning own brothers in the spirit world by the same mother).

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Page4 Moroni Jessop told me, GeorgeEarl is an.older man than I am. at East Miilcreek, one morning after sleeping with Lorin, I heard him say, "oh Lord, Oh Lord, Oh Lord!!! wili I be able to stand in the gap?" He repeated this statement three times with his hands raised to heaven. I did not know what he meant, I never knew until later years. Lorin told me he had to learn some things he knew right from the same man that taught Joseph the prophet. (The prophet Moroni) He told me he had seen him. He said he is a little larger man than either Joseph Smith or the Savior. He said, he had almost a straight nose and blue eyes, He was a little broader shouldered. Ail three men, Joseph, the Savior and Moroni--all wererblue:eyed-men. Lorin said, "the Saviors hair was a deep auburn. Joseph's hair was a dark auburn". Lorin told me the Seer Stone was the size of a auarter.He could never show it out or curosity; ir he did, it would be taken from him. It could only be used when necessary and when it was needed"

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Page4l Salt Lake City, brother Moroni Jessop, dictated the following. items of interest. Both Lorin and his father John W. Woolley said in my presence, also the presence of others, time and again,h hThis state will be damned through ail eternity for the stand it has taken by the people in connection with the Patriarchal order of marriage I don't kmow what he meant by that statement or what will yet have to be done. I have seen Lorin when at times he did not look like himself.He had such a load to carry. I have gone into the home of brother John W. Woolley more times than once,and,as I entered the kitchen room,I noticed his face being whiter than snow,and the feeling present was beyond words to describe. It was wonderful.It was a spiritual element and I kmew that somebody from the other side had been there before I came, or may have been there when I came in, but I could not see them. of men by their walk,theirpoise, their shoulders, their ears, how they carry themselves, their nose, oyes, etc. A man's ears and nose never remain the same. They always change. were Adam, Seth, Jesus, Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, John Taylor and John W.Woolley. The angel Moroni appeared before the sigmers of the Constitution. .When Lorin told me this I was alone with him.He said that after weeks of effort in trying to draft a constitution for the new world, the members had all but failed. Their efforts had all but blowm up; all of them had failed upto that time; they could not get fully united; they were in doubt, still in disagreement, in debate, and there was opposition. They seemed unable to fully agree and were ready to adjourn when a tall through the isle. The men present had dfafted the Constitution for the nation, but hesitated signing it. The personage told them he had come to talk to them about sigming this constitution. His personality appealed to them, his influence was out of the ordinary. It greatly impressed them all. He asked if he might address them to which consent was given. Not to go ahead and sign the document that was to become the constitutional law of the land.They became completely spelibound with the wonderful time. Lorin toldme, had he not gone in among them, their labors would have completely faiied; it was all but a failure then. No man in that house kmew who the personage was. He did not reveal his identity to them. Joseph the Prophet. this continent.He is a man,I was told, over six feet tall, quite large, has a roman nose and blue eyes. Lorin not only described Moroni to me, but he described the Savior, Joseph Smith and others.

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Page42 Sunday afternoon, March II, Is45. 4:30p.m. at my home, 36o Harrison Ave., Salt Lake City. Some other matters came to his mind,he said, should accompany what had previously be recorded. I had the ques. No.I. What did John W. and Lorin C. Woolley tell you concerning the Urim Thummim? Did they say thelfwas more than one such instrument? Answer:"I was told it was the right and privilege of the worthy senior in the Council of Seven to have possession of this instrument and to use it when necessary.This, together with othor things and special information,is what constitutes THE KEYS To PRIESTHooD. John W. Woolley and his son Lorin, both had access to the Urim and Thummim.I was informed that Father Adam had possession of the Urim and Thummim first, and from him it has come on dowm through the priesthood line. I was told there,were not two Urim and Thummims. had it, but used it. One time,Lorin in the presence of my son Jack,discribed it to us.He said he had it on his person then. Lorin told me. ,Iwhen the Ereaty of Versiiles was being drafted at Paris after the first Worid War, he sat in his kitchen and looked through the Urim and Thummim and saw the whole proceedings which took place. Eyery man was before him; he could tell xactly.where they sat from Presidont Wilson at the tablei saw the expressions of thoir faces; heard what each man said,and even were. He saw how far they intended to carry out what they had planned to do. If he had been right around theCouncil table Lorin said, he could not have At this juncture Moroni related the following: nother time,he told me,a Grand Council meeting was held east of his home out in Centerviile, under the treos there. And when walkding over that ground one it was when the Grand Council meeting was held by his father s home) that one of the members of that body was absent when it convened. He had been called on a mission to Great Britian. This man was Orson F. Whitney, and it was necessary that he be at this meeting. Lorin told me they sent for him. a person but was told he had left to take a walk.He was found walling on one of the walks and was taken to this meeting. I asked Lorin, how long it took,to go there and bring him back. Lorin answered,"about half an hour" I was informed that men have been, and could be, ordained and set apart by God s direction, nd when so set apart, they can move from continent to continent. The when it is necossary. Their is a law higher than anything we kmow about that in the twinkling of time people can travel thousands of miles. and again. It was in reference to THE WoRTHY SENIoR. He told me never to forget it. It is the worthy senior the Lord used. I remember one day brother Charles (F.Zitting) called at my home on Floral street.It was shortly after Joseph Leslie roadbent died.In our conwhen I told him. you men in tho Council wore put thero in just the I manner the Lord wanted you placed so as to place it out of order

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Page43 No. 2. Dictate as you remembor it, the story about the sick chila". to it as a dream. Those not so intimate with him were told it was a dream, Joseph F. Smith was when he had the vision, but he told me what it meant. The story went like this: Several men were together in a room. Those that were thore had either been Presidents of the Chureh, ob would bo. The Young who was in the room. Brigham Young nursed the baby for some time and it got no better.Then he turned to John aylor and handed it to him.While in his arms it got extreemely sick. While still in that condition he turned and handed it to Wilford Woodruff. He nursed it.but while he did,it nearly died. Later on it revived again some, and in that condition he handed it to Lorenzo Snow. Lorenzo Snow only nursed it a little while, and then turned it over to Joseph F.Smith.He nursed it for quite a number of years,but,all the time it was extreemely sick, and while in that condition he turned back to the rophet Joseph Smith. This baby,I was given to understand, was the Church of esus Christ of attor-day Saints.And this was the condition the church was represented No.3. Tell what you were told concerning the different portions broken off from this earth? Answer: "I was told the first piece dismembered from this earth (which originally was very much larger than it now is) was taken away with Enoch and his people before the flood. I was informed this earth originally was five times larger than it now is. Another large piece of this earth was dismembered away back in the Another piece was taken away in the days of the Prophot Melehosedek, who was Shem. He was also a righteous man and his people were righteous. They are on another portion of what originally was of this earth. Another portion was dismembered from this earth, and on this portion, the TEN LoST TRIBEs now dwell.John the Revelator is there with them. Another portion was broken off with Alma and a body of people who lived in Book of Mormon days. There was another part taken, but I don't recall it now. Maybe it will come to me later and I wili tell you. I was told that six pieces were broken off,some larger and some smaller, and that what remains now is THE SEVENTH PoRTIoN. Lorin told me this. No. 4. Did they ever teach you Father Adam and Mother Eve came to this earth as resurrected beings from another world? Answer: "Yes,I was taught or told that very thing. They said it was sc No. 5. Did they ever inform you how many planets there were that revolved around oursolar system? Answer: "Yes. I was given to understand there are firteen planets that revolve around our solar system. Or,worlds that belong to the same order our planet does. Our sun receives itlight from Kolob, which in turn reflects its light to our earth. That portion of this planet which the Lord

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Page 44 desigmnates as celestial, will eventually become a Urim and Thummim unto all those who will be permitted to live upon it.It has already become a Urim and Thummim to some prophets, who have lived upon it, who now live upon it; it was a Urim and Thummim to Josus, to John the Reveiator, to the Three Nepand to others. No.C.Did either over tell you about ancient Nephite burying any records or treasures here in these Rocky Mountains? here in the Rocky Mountains.Lorin told me some of the writings of those ancient Apostles and Prophets were more powerful than others. For instance, he said:Ithe brother of Jared's writings were over-powering.And,no man to write was unusual. is On KOLOB" iSouth.thEast Salt Lake Gity, Utah. (Signed) 74I South,Sth East 3coHarrison Avenune, Salt "ake City, Utah. Salt Lake City, Utah.

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Page45 December 4, lg49, Moroni Jessop told me while he was laboring in the British mission he sold ll33 Books and gave away some 1ooo tracts. His missionary work in meeting the public was unusual, and his ability to sell literature phenominal. He told me after days of work it was not unusual to come home with his pants and coat pockets loaded and weighed down with English coppers, the weightbeing a task to come home with. He took sick one time and while at the.eonference housein this condition, President Mitchell, who was at New Castle, England, came specially to get acquainted with the man who had sold, and kept sending for more literature to sell and to dispurse. While I was laying in bed he said to ALL THE MISSIONARIES ON THE CONTINENT AND ENGLAND COMBINED" He was a .natural-salesman. Additional statements made to Arnold Boss, not dated. to see ho'seless wagons, horseless buggies, horseless moving machines, horseless threshing machines, etc". Now it has all come to pass. My father saw all these things. The betrayers of the Gods of heaven are the Devils in hell. No man is ugly to God that is a good man. All the prophets are saviors. I am the same old stick I've been, only the bark has been knocked off in places. know that you are his friend and that he is yours, though he never speaks world. Time is only allotted unto planets, then you move into eternity. Time is only allotted to mortality. The Lord can use a clean vessel right away, but a filthy dirty vessel He cannot use until it has been cleaned out in every way. The world's good times of popularity with its pleasures is nothing but the fuel that feeds the time of elimination. I believe every person that has to come to this earth had a right to choose their parents before they came here, if they were worthy. Some

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Page46 Additional statements made to Arnold Boss, not dated. I have been promised some will be called into a priesthood meeting by Joseph Smith the Prophet,and in this meeting he wiil tell them why the dirferent nations exist, the privileges they are entitled to, and why limitations. It is the lineage you come through that counts. Joseph Smith has very prominent blue eyes, and when I saw him I thought he was the prettiest man I ever saw in this world--and Oh what a lover of children he is. Oh Arnold, I wiil never forget the feeling that went through me when I had Joseph place his arms around me and hugged me, and when the Master patted me on the face. many hours. The Devil is a seducer of everything that is right. Oh the suffering, misery, the awfulness of the Sons of perdition. I saw it when the veil was taken from my eyes. No man can describe it, no language can portray it-- meaning human language. been taught certain things, they usually don't go far astray. Smith the Prophet wiil get her out. Ir men and women betray that whichis right, or which is the truth, they will have to pay a maJor crime before they can come back. seen what is in hell, and while on earth I have taken a lot of hell. God way. I know there is only one way to eternal exaltation. what a Joy to talk with one who sees things as I do. Oh the Joy, the happiness that wiil lay down his iife, yes all on the altar, for the cause of God. Any man who hates little chiidren will never amount to much. God cannot give you anything more precious than children.

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Page7

A BRIEF QF THE HIGH CCUICIL TRIAL

OF MORCNIJESSOP

(Some time during March,194o) The trial took pluce Thursday evening, 7:30,at the offioes of the Stake Presiaenoy, Znd Avenue and ncn streets.besides the Presiaenoy of the stake ana Hizh Councii theze were present the sishopbrio or brother Jessop's wara, two churoh spies who haa been atherin informtion for two years, nameiy.Bishop Fred Curtis, of the Hawthorne Wara, ana Georee Lund cierk or the High Priests Quoru of the Granite Staka of Zion. Presiaent Winusiow Farr Smith caiied the brethern to oraer at &:3o.Prayer was orferea by(Name not entered) The Stake cierk was then gailea upon to reaa the summons aria the charges preferred against the accused.Foilowing the reaaine, the paper was iven back to the Stake Presiaent. who in turn passed it over to Juaze MoEonkie.The jucge asked him ir he plead or aia not piead uiity to the fivecharges enumereted. Brother Jessop replied that he plead Euiity to aii exoept the twelveth article of our faith. Taere was nothing in the twelveth articie of faith which he could not sustain when this articie was read ln connection with theeleventh. position ana faith at this time. He did this. In substanoe his tesohild. I believe in the patriarchal order ofmarriage: I was taught it.I know it is a true prinoiple of the gospei.It is a principle Present one, President Heber J. Grant.Ke has been a polygamist for years,and,as I understani it is so considered at the present time. (He had no sooner made that statement when George J. Cannon Jumpea to his feet anu cailed brother Jessop a liar ana in a venomous spirit offerea to fiuht him.Brcther Jessop oame back at brother Cannon with this statement: "It aoes not lay in your brooohes to whip me".Pres ident Cannon again cane back with the statement: wi an ready to ohoke it down any man's throat who says Presiaont Grant is a polyeamist", BrotherJessop replied by calling him to order, saying. Bpirit; you have the spirit of Satan in youe. r Cannon then said, ti wouid like to have about firteen minutes on the outside with any man who woula make that statement". Brother Jessop replied: "Any time you think you can biur me you are arirting on the wrong traiin. At thisJunoture Br Cannontook his Beat) Juage Mcconkie then interroiatea brother Jessop concerning the I2th artiole of faithi,"Brother Jessop,you say that you believe the I2th artiole of faith?n Lrother Jessop: "yes, Bir",You know that the churoh voted upon the Manifesto at the October conferenoe, I89o. action of the generai churoh conferenoe it became binaing upon all the menbers of the churoh. ani beoame law of the church? (Brother Edmond Barlow lnterJected: "Judge, you mean a rule of the church) The Juage said: No. I do not mean a rule of the ohurch. I mean the law of the church") Judge McConkie to brother Jessop:"You, Juding from the statements you have mede tonirht, ao not reaily sustain Brother McConkie,then oan't you see that if you do not. that by not doing it, when the Church leaders and the body of the churoh have

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Page48 put them selves upon reord saying that they will obey the governmentlin that mattet. that you &re not in harmony with the churoh as it intrepreta the Izth artiole of faith in obeyinehonoring ledge that I do not interpret it as you are now interpreting it". Judge McConkie: wThen ir you k ao not unaerstana it as the body of thechuroh does, you reully in that Bense plead guilty to &ll sop: In that sense I an guiity.Brother Jesuop in coming to the first oharge Baid,al sustain leber J.Grant as being the President of the ohurch, he is there by the vuioe of the people, and that's President Smith asked brother Jessop the following: Brother Jessop, In what don't you sustain the ieadery of the ohuroh in?n Answer: i don't sustain them for cuttine men off the ohurch for believingin plural marriage. or teaching that it is a true prin.- ciple.or for theirlivinu it. plural marriage is one of the laws tola them the Bame thing I told them I had always aerended plural marriage and intend to. I told them I would not sign their papers statinu that I would Bupport the prusont authorities in the way they are interpreting matters about this principie.And, also,n that I myselr was not living this prinoipie, whioh I an not." how oen I, mhen he aoes not claim it himsulr. Brother,loConke: wyrother Jessop, fron rhat hes been brought out it seems to be olearthat all the five clarges filed against things, yes".I beiiere in.ali the laws and that they shoula be liyed. At the deuiaation of the St, George temple president Brigham they wouid do away with piural Marriage and the United Order. and lr they uia, the chureh oouia not progress as Goa wantea it to. It has been done. and now you fellows are outtin me off for y beliefinitn. brother George Lund to submit the evidenge he had aoctmuletea against brother Jessop.(Brother Lund Baia he w&s olerk or the High Priests quorua of the Granite stake of zionl. The information he had gathered he said covered two years time about men who were obeying plural marriage, or found at Buch meetings where it was beine taught. As he conenced speaking he apologizea for bein& so nervous. Baying he had never been that way before. And before he got very far aiong he apolorized the seoond time. Heread eome firteen pages of printed matter (not quite sure of the number) He stated he with others had bsen in front of the home at I3cl Eouth an open window. The blinds ana window were up so they could see & hear. After this had been going on for same time the window he said was put down, also the blind. This was done purposely so we could nothear on the outside.Bofore this time. he said.we tried to gain admittance, but were denied.Arter the window and blind was put down lmvitations were given to us to oome on it, but for reasons I don't wish to Bay here, we deolined them." Muoh orthe information, in faot the largest portion,was Iounded in lalsehood. About the only thing that was correotiy stator car brother Jessop was driving, and that many times he arove it to I3sl.parking it and attending meetings. Also that he formeriy

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Page49 lived at Flowers Court, and non was living at South Bth east. Mis written paper was a dramatized mess of irroguiarities some or doctrines,like Auam was our God": that "Josoph Smith was the Holy Giost"; that'the sealing powers were brought on down through John W.ana Lorin C.Woolley,and that these meetings were being held contrury to the rule or oraer of the church,or the wera in whiohitheymete. Arter a lat of timo had been wasted reaaing this meterial, oharges auainst the aoouaed. At this deveiopment or the imvestigation brother Bosg asked Windslow Farr Smith ror the privileage of introduoine eyidenoe before the ieh Counoil whioh he hau with him. that nearly all of thie &eneral authorities sinoe the time the Manifeuto was recieved had broken it themselves. as also the law of the land. The Preaident came beok with the reply wThe ohuroh authorities are not on trial, brother Jessop is. Ana only evidenoe can be introduced here that will apply to the oharges preferrea eeainst tho aocused". Judge MeConkie then said in Bubstanoe: wYou men all kmow knon how it is governed, yet the oiaim is made that under the adminieteration or President Taylor five men were called in by him & set apart to oxeroise the Beaiine powsrs anu to fight the churoh", Brother Bosu: No Judge. We are not fi&hting: the ohuroh; you sre wrong.The judge: weli it amountsito that. you are teaohine one thing and the authorities another.I want you men to know that the Manireato after it was aocepted by the ohuroh is a law of the ohuroh Manifesto is a revelation from God?wJudze Moconkie: wlt makus no dirferenoe whatherit is a revelation from God or fron theDevil. isfrom the davil we willagreewith you,and thatit fulfiilsthe covenant with death and the agreement with heil mentioned in seripJudge McConkie continuea by Bayine. wi can Bee consistency in the Lora giving the law of oarnal commandments to Israeol they refused to reoieye the higher lam. For that refusal he withdrew the hiher priesthood. Hothing can be shown that amy suoh condition prevailod in John Taylor s time cailinr for the neoeesity of another priest hood channel being set up to do whet you olaim has been done. The Lord haa his ohwrch upon earth. it is here. and to me it is Juet to fight the leaders in the ohurch.w Brother Boss &aked Preaidont Smith to offer some correetions in reinarks wade by Judee MoConkie. Permisaion was riven: "Brother MoConkie, your understandinu is entireiy wrang.in Bome things. God aid not set apart men to fight the ohuroh or its leadthings were oarried out.We as a people are not fighting the churoh. we are oppoaing false teaohings and doctrines. e stand beck of the revelations or God, &ll that Joseph Smith taueht ahc commanaed to be llred. Ir you entertain the iaea thet we are fiehting indiviauals you need to be corrected,we are not.Your oonception of wrat is now being done la wrong, and I think you shoyld know this in Justice to yourselr and the people or our group".

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Page50 Pregiaent Smith asked the brethern rho had dravn the odd numbers ifthey had anythin further to ask of the aocusea. Theansrer wasNon.Brother Riohards then was esked ir he hed any remerks to make.He said, wYes".Arising he statea in Bubstancs:"so far as he ell the charges preferred had bcen sustained.Maving was conoerned been there was no other aeoision to arrive at other than that unlesb held up the General authoritiee of the churoh &s the bodyof the people were aoine, he wouid have to be hendled. I ask you brother Jessop to consider your course while it is yet time I ask you to repent of your wayg and follow the Lord g leuders he hes set up in his churoh. I testiiy they ure Bervants of Goi and are leading this people in the Way the Lord wants them to be leaa. President Smith then Baid ail the evidence neded he felt had been introduoed. He asked the High oowncil if they were ready for a vote.The brethern spoke up saying they were ready. e then said:Will you who feel that the charyes have baen sustained enc that brother Moroni should be excommunioated from the Churoh of Jesus Christ of Latter Lay Saints manifest it by your uplifted hend'. The rote was unanimous. We then prooeeded to obtain our wraps. Severel or the mebcrs of the Hi&h Council ceme and Bhook hanas with eaoh of us. Brother George J. Cannon follored brother Jesop in the oloak room &nd "Apologized for his early remnrks,Baying,"Iras wrons".He imited loroni to come to his orrice. giving him his card, sayine ha wantea to spcak mithhime The council meeting was courtous ani respectfui &ll the way through, othor than the inoident whioh oooured between Moroni Jessop and Georee J. Cannon at the beginning of the trial. We held no feelings nor gruages upon leaving. and were quite sure that neither aid most of the members present. There were some twenty men in thie Council room. Signatur6s The above lnormation has been emmgtk assembled by the three signatures above. We ive it &s we now reoall the proceedings.In sub stanoe it ls oorreot. In givine it justice sk it iu hoped has been given to both sides.

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SICKNESS OF MORONI JESSOP

November 20,1951 Today Moroni Jessop had to go to bed.He and his remaining family, that unmarried, were to be our guest for Thanksgivingdinner. When I learned this, I went to his home to find out his situation. He spoke to all about him, but said he thought I would have to forget him being with us on the 22d. Commencing with Thanksgiving day, he started to have a lapse of memory. He was in no physical pain, other than a sore stomach. His son, Jess home for ten days from the U.S. Air Force, with rank of second lieutenant, ate dinner with us; also Fred Morrison and wife, baby,and his mother; also James Jessop,his wife and two children. That was all the company we had. We had a lovely dinner. I had purchased a Turkey weighing nearly 20 lbs. I have been to see brother Jessop every day since his iilness. I have found him with a lapsed memory,but after speaking to him, he would start narrating thinas he had seen on the other side.He seems to be half on earth,half on the otherside. The things he has recounted to me, of the preexistence,our schooling,training,associations,ordinations, etc before coming here, was remarkable. He described ancient prophets and Patriarchs; he described my own father to me; he toid of work they were doing; of their connection with the earth, the people here engaged in a gospel assignment;

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he spoke to me of records, very ancient records of centuries and miileniums old,my assignments in connection with them as it would be (speaking in the future tense); of the evil spirits; of their work and missions; of Lucifer,Satan, and his generals; who they are and why they are such; the necessity of them,their eternal status on worlds and earths to be,to try out God's children; their workings in the spirit world; their ultimate defeat, being forced to surrender to eternal laws.and true principles. He told me of some of the sealed instruction to councils given to chosen spiritsbefore they left to come to earth. He described buildings in existence over there,lands, etc. Said no tongue could describe the buiidings, their architecture,every precious stone used in their constructure, gold, silver, and other precious metals. It was beyond discription, and yet he told me of them in his words, but said he could not find language to describe them. He seemed to know about many of the little children among us, now growing up. He said they were choice spirits. He said they were reserved to come in this time; that they would take up the cause of God and fight for the gospel and its principles unto death. He portrayed the final contest between God and Lucifer.He said this was the winding up scene, but oh the terrible cost of ife and blood. He said, God would win out; Lucifer would fail, but that the latter would never give in an inch until forced to by the development of events.

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He told me about buiiding worlds. He told me of the marriage order and system obtaining in God's government; he described the men and women, how they moved about. The color of their hair, their complexion, their sparkling eyes; their nimbleness. He described ancient Patriarchs to me, seemed to know all about their activity; He spoke of his father, his mother, his grandfather,my ancestors, etc. He said he saw Lorin and his father John W. Woolley; the latter introduced himto the Prophet Joseph Smith; he saw Brigham Young, John Taylor,Joseph Smith, Sen., and they told him he was to work with them. He told me of wives and chiidren that had been given to him; he told of wives and chiidren that would come to me. He described them to me; he told me of my assignment in connections with records that wouid come to me under the direction of Jesus and Joseph Smith.He said he saw Father Adam. Just many many things of the future, and otherside,hetold meof. He said O, the sorrows, pains, broken-hearted things that would arise in our 1ives,brought on by the devil and his servants, and even being murdered for the truths and principles of God; that all this would be forgotten as soon as the spirit left the body; that the devil could not destroy the spirit as he couid the body; we just kept going on and on and on.He told me of a lengthy discussion he had with Satan face to face. That personage was real, he discribed him to

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they were linked with such.a lineage; it was marvelous what He said that he was a liar from the beginning, he told me. a murderer, a whoremonger,and everything that is portrayed by the negative principles. He argued with him for a lengthy period of time; when Satan could not conquor him, he left with the speed of lightning, leaving behind an awful stink or smell one can never forget who has experienced it. He told me there were God-devils,as their are true Gods; he told me of theline of the Gods, their glory, their intelligence,their powers,building worlds,peopleing them.1 He told me concerning this solar system of ours; he told me of system above systems, one above another. We disgussed them together. It was marvelous beyond words to discribe it as he related it to me. Many times as he unfolded matters to me, I wished I could have recorded it all in his language used to do it; for he had a commandof light,thoughts,words, phraseexpressions, that were divine. He made use of words and iilustrations to discribe what he had seen and heard; what he was shown. He said to me, the veil was taken from my mind. Then he said, the Lord can show you more in five minutes than you can learn in ali the universities combined in a whole lifetime. Many things he told me of, have already left me, it being evident the truths are for the other side, more than for here.Day after day he would recount matters to me; lots of times he seemed to be assigned to fight wicked spirits on the other side, etc. I won't say more, because it is natural

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for the natural man to dispute these matters, or say they come from a deranged mind. It is now December 5,1951. The familybeing mostly opposed to their father, have removed him to an aged home about 12th south on 5th east, herein Sait Lake City, Ut. It is close to my home and Igo over to see him often.He has never failed to recognize me, nor nearly every other person who has.visited him. There are fewof his former associates whohave come. His family situation is sad,but he told, he wastold by the'prophet Joseph,he would have a few friends who would stay by him and not desert him. --Arnold Boss Diary (original spelling and punctuation used)